BattleStar-eyed wonder

[Burt]

I just sat down today and watched a ton of Battlestar Galatica (The new one). It's pretty good, I must say. But the best part is the effects. The ship fight scenes are utterly amazing. I mean I love DS9's Sacrifice of Angels as much as the next person (a little too much, some might say) but Star Trek starship battles are very different. More...neat? BSG is closer to StarWars, although I think even Star Wars is some what 'neatish'. BSG battles looked, quite real! There was once bit with two Battlestars taking on a couple of BaseStars, and with the missiles and fighters moving round, it was very 'Navy Aircraft battle' like.
Very good!
The only thing - downside - is how depressing the show is. All the death and killing! And how everything seems so very hopeless!
Had to watch a few Voyagers to cheer myself up!

[PointyHairedJedi]

Oh, you think nuBSG is depressing? Just try watching the seventies Gerry Anderson show UFO. Now that's depressing.

I'm glad you like it though. It really is a great show, and perhaps one of the better reimaginings that have ever been done. In fact, Captain Scarlet is the only other one I can really think of, which coincidentally was also a Gerry Anderson show.

[e of pi]

As you can tell from my sig, I have seen the coming of the Light of the Pixels of Kobol, and have purchased all the episodes from iTunes. That, and that Ryan Connors Leslie needs more lines, but I digress. The ship designs are very good, and the battles are, as Valium says, very good. It does get depressing, though...but I have this site to cheer me up!

[Zeke]

I have a love/hate relationship with BSG: I hate why people love it. You might think I got all this off my chest during the April Fool's event, but nope, not even close. I could fill page after page with angry invective about the show, the mentality it feeds upon, and what that mentality does to people. Sometimes people I care about.

You guys, however, have not yet been eaten by said mentality -- so by all means enjoy the show.

[e of pi]

There are, as I see it in my twisted worldview, two ways to enjoy any scifi show:

1. Watch it, enjoy it, be inspired by it, never mention it.
2. Watch it, becoming fanatic, kill all braincells.
3. Watch it occasionally because you're too busy painting a model based off of it, make ships based off of it, join online communities to parody it.

The first is the bulk of scifi fans.

The second is fairly unhealthy.

Fortunately, I chose the third for almost all of scifi. As I type this, I am looking for the model of my first BSG ship, a support ship for BattleStars that carries 10 Vipers, 2 Raptors, and lotsa guns. It's made to act as a destroyer, frigate, or crusier to the BattleStar's carrier/battleship. I made it out of 2 Lego Bionicle feet. Yes, I am that nerdy, and clumsy enough to lose it. I am cool. B)

[Chancellor Valium]

I think the point is that its depressing. Science fiction tends to work best with a depressing view of the future...Otherwise you get what I like to call the TOS-effect - everyone smiles and They All Live Happily Ever After at the end of the episode and its back to the status quo...

On the other hand, it's not quite got the dull depressingness of say, Blake's 7. I mean, not many programmes have managed to see like Marvin wrote them and then kill off almost the entire cast in the final episode...Its like King Lear, only not quite so well written...

UFO is also quite depressing. And the new Captain Scarlet really isn't as good as the original...

[Burt]

Originally Posted by e of pi

There are, as I see it in my twisted worldview, two ways to enjoy any scifi show:

1. Watch it, enjoy it, be inspired by it, never mention it.
2. Watch it, becoming fanatic, kill all braincells.
3. Watch it occasionally because you're too busy painting a model based off of it, make ships based off of it, join online communities to parody it.

The first is the bulk of scifi fans.

The second is fairly unhealthy.

Fortunately, I chose the third for almost all of scifi. As I type this, I am looking for the model of my first BSG ship, a support ship for BattleStars that carries 10 Vipers, 2 Raptors, and lotsa guns. It's made to act as a destroyer, frigate, or crusier to the BattleStar's carrier/battleship. I made it out of 2 Lego Bionicle feet. Yes, I am that nerdy, and clumsy enough to lose it. I am cool. B)

I don't know. Look at that. What people do with their time. I mean I may have dabbed in some model making in the past, but it not like I have say -
-A Bird of Prey
-WarBird
-Defient
- 6 Other Federation Ships
-Deep Space 9
-Kazon Raider
-Maquis Fighter
- 3 Star Destroyers
-Deathstar
-Blockade Runner
-Troop Carrier
-AT-AT
-AT-ST
- 2 K-9's
- 3 Daleks


Well now, that would just be crazy, wouldn't it?

[Chancellor Valium]

Perhaps we ought to have a thread for posting pictures of models?

I've been trying to model a Dalek in gmax...so far I have the dome and eye-stalk, and that's about it...

[Tate]

Originally Posted by e of pi

There are, as I see it in my twisted worldview, two ways to enjoy any scifi show:

1. Watch it, enjoy it, be inspired by it, never mention it.
2. Watch it, becoming fanatic, kill all braincells.
3. Watch it occasionally because you're too busy painting a model based off of it, make ships based off of it, join online communities to parody it.

I've heard that there are three types of people; those who can count and those who can't.

Originally Posted by e of pi

Fortunately, I chose the third for almost all of scifi. As I type this, I am looking for the model of my first BSG ship, a support ship for BattleStars that carries 10 Vipers, 2 Raptors, and lotsa guns. It's made to act as a destroyer, frigate, or crusier to the BattleStar's carrier/battleship. I made it out of 2 Lego Bionicle feet. Yes, I am that nerdy, and clumsy enough to lose it. I am cool. B)

I made a lego model of Voyager once. I assembled it in one afternoon during a burst of creativity. I later modified bits and pieces of it, and I even drew blueprints for it. It's somewhat dissasembled right now, but I might be able to put it back together again.

[Zeke]

I was really into Trek models in high school. You should see my Voyager. For some reason I never got around to building my DS9 model... it's probably still around, so one of these days I'll do it.

Originally Posted by Tate

I've heard that there are three types of people; those who can count and those who can't.

"There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't."
That's only 2 types of people, kow.
STUPID

(Courtesy of bash.)

[e of pi]

I love that line. I really love the people who react how SpaceRain did.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Chancellor Valium

I think the point is that its depressing. Science fiction tends to work best with a depressing view of the future...

This line of thinking is so depressing, I don't know where to begin.

[Chancellor Valium]

Originally Posted by Derek

This line of thinking is so depressing, I don't know where to begin.

Then begin at the beginning and end at the ending!

[evay]

Zeke, do you find it upsetting that people enjoy a "dark" scifi show, or are you cranked about people who praise it blindly and won't admit to any faults? I enjoy the show, but it's no Trek, and neither is it the Second Coming. RDMoore and Co screw up just as much as anyone else. I'm curious what your objections are.

[Zeke]

Oh, I have no problem at all with dark shows. Some of my favourite Trek episodes are bleak ones like "In the Pale Moonlight" and "Mortal Coil," and I'm enjoying the hell out of the new Doctor Who series. Gene Roddenberry's vision is what separates Trek from most sf, but that doesn't automatically make it better than less optimistic concepts.

What bothers me about BSG is that it seems almost grown out of the basher mentality. "Let's not be Trek" is the closest thing it has to a guiding philosophy. Bashers loved B5 and Farscape too, but those shows didn't love them back the way BSG does. Consequently, the show can get away with things Trek couldn't. Picture for a moment a Trek series as glutted with sex as BSG is. Can there be any doubt that it would be reviled as pandering to the lowest common denominator? But BSG gets to be "Sci-Fi Sexuality Dealt With." I guess all it takes to deal with sexuality is show everybody screwing and never look at the consequences; it's not like sex means anything, after all.

And what really gets to me is that everyone is buying it. Not just the bashers, everyone. BSG is all over the net, nigh-inescapable. And it gets slack no other sf show gets. The complaints bashers had about VOY and ENT pale before the ones they should have about BSG but don't. Moore is completely flying by the seat of his pants. The Cylons can do whatever's necessary for the plot because they're mysterious. Maybe "they have a plan," but no one has any idea what it is. And why should they? Their fans don't care.

Did you know that Kira used to be every bit the Trek defender I am? We felt just the same way about the basher mentality... and then, little by little, I watched it eat her. In the end she'd become a dyed-in-the-wool TWOP-type fan, agreeing with the mob, saying stuff like "squee," and ending sentences? Like this. By the time BSG came out, it fit her like a glove. So yeah, I have something of a personal investment here -- maybe too much. But I will do anything I can to fight the basher mentality. And I'll watch BSG, sometimes enjoy it, but I'll never forget what it stands for.

[PointyHairedJedi]

[evay]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Picture for a moment a Trek series as glutted with sex as BSG is. Can there be any doubt that it would be reviled as pandering to the lowest common denominator?

Isn't that one of the common complaints about ENT, as your own link proved? It certainly pissed me off that they made the ship's Vulcan into the Show's Babe.

I guess all it takes to deal with sexuality is show everybody screwing and never look at the consequences; it's not like sex means anything, after all.

::scratches head:: Okay, who's had sex on BSG? and what happened afterwards?


Chief and Boomer: in the context of a loving relationship. She was outed as a Cylon agent. She died.

Helo and Sharon: sort of in the context of a loving relationship. She's pregnant. Helo takes responsibility. Kid is born and must be coped with.

Kara and Lee, sort of: Aborted drunken tryst between friends.

Kara and her underwear model: eventually in the context of a relationship, as they get married.

Lee and Dee: eventually in the context of a loving relationship.

Chief and Cally: married, or at least partnered, and she's pregnant.

The Tighs: married. Very twisted relationship. Ellen sleeps around, and is one of the show's secondary villains.

Dee and Billy: dating.

Baltar: Complete and utter tramp, who will sleep with humans, Cylons, battered women, and chip-generated fantasies. Also the show's villain, a total scumbag and vile coward.

Six/Gina: Manipulating Cylons. Show's villains.


Did I miss anyone? As I'm seeing it, all the positive sex is more or less in healthy relationships between adults, and all the people who are running around screwing anyone are -- gasp! -- the bad guys, whom the show reviles. Kara is not celebrated for her drunken grope of Lee.

You know what I don't see? The endless goddamn soap opera they made of Trip and T'Pol. There's no will they/won't they, no coy withdrawals, no genital-teasing. The Siren is a Siren, and acts like one. The officers are competent and dress appropriately for their duties.

Moore is completely flying by the seat of his pants. The Cylons can do whatever's necessary for the plot because they're mysterious. Maybe "they have a plan," but no one has any idea what it is. And why should they? Their fans don't care.

have you listened to the three-part writers' meeting podcasts? Maybe the writers don't know, but they are spending a lot of time thinking about it. They're not just churning ahead blindly. They acknowledge the corners they could paint themselves into. I don't mind that Moore doesn't have his plan worked out yet. The writers don't have a frakking clue what's going on on "Lost" either, and that show regularly makes the Top 10. (not that I watch it -- just making the analogy.)


I cheerfully acknowledge BSG's faults. Moore screws up his own continuity, and made an ENORMOUS error in having Roslin ban abortion. And it's NOT Trek; it doesn't celebrate the best we could be and hold it up as a goal. (and you cannot accuse me of not supporting Trek in general or ENT specifically, considering all the work I did on my support page over S3 and S4.) But I also recognize good writing when I see it.

[Burt]

Originally Posted by evay

The writers don't have a frakking clue what's going on on "Lost" either, and that show regularly makes the Top 10. (not that I watch it -- just making the analogy.)

Slightly changing the subject, even though I know it's not what you meant. But, lordy has anyone watched Lost? I mean I can watch most TV shows. Really. Anyone that can sit down and watch 'The Web of Fear' (Doctor Who 1st Doctor), enjoy it AND, not find people walking around in huge bee suits silly - well lets just say that no matter how 'bad' Enterprise, Voyager, BSG and all other sci-fi shows get they'll never be at that level.
But Lost? Yes, it has about a zillion great ideas.
The monster, random animals that shouldn't be there, The hidden bases, The countdown thingy, The others, The numbers, The chance meetings, The boy, The French women, The illness and everything else.
And what happens..?
Zero.
No point is ever explained. No-one ever seems to react how any normal person would to these events. No plots are uncovered. I watch an episode and something big happens at the end of it, and you think 'Wow! Now that will be explained next episode! They wouldn't just forget about that, would they!?' But they do. It would be like Buffy finding Dark Willow killing Warren. And then the next episode being about something totally different. I DON'T CARE ABOUT SUN'S CABBAGE PATCH! I just wanna know about the numbers!
I've watched the first series. And I've just finished watching the second. I was so bored. The thing that keeps me going on Buffy, Angel, 24 (And Series 3 Of Enterprise) was the plot. Finding small bits of info thoughout, building up the picture, understanding more and more as you go along. I know some stuff needs to be kept hidden till the end, but with Lost it feels like it's everything!
The problem with Lost is it's based around 'THE SECRET-tm'. That one big idea. No-one knows what it is -either they've all been taken by aliens, or there're in purgatory- whatever. The thing is, the writers can't tell us what it is. Cos then the mystery will be gone, So I'm guessing I'll have to wait till the very end to find out.
There was a big cliff-hanger at the end of series two. One of them 'This will change everything bits'. But knowing this show, everyone will have forgot about it by next series.

[Zeke]

evay, I'm ready to admit when I've been nailed, and you have nailed me. I didn't think that "consequences" comment through at all. I still think Jammer's wrong that BSG has any sort of special maturity where sex is concerned, but the charge I made is unfair, and I'll remember that.

I doubt we'll ever see eye to eye about T/T, though. Will-they-won't-they is how the majority of TV romances work (look at Apollo and Starbuck). I think S4's arc would have been the last of that -- if the show had been able to continue, we'd have seen T/T settle into something like Tom and B'Elanna, but more central because of the characters' importance. I don't like "Harbinger" any more than you do; I guess the reason it doesn't bother me as much is that I was expecting T/T practically from the word go. When I talked to Thinkey after "Broken Bow," she was dead convinced that those two would be the show's big couple, and so I kept an eye out for it and ended up liking the idea.

Finally, the fact that I don't think BSG is more mature than Trek about sex doesn't mean I think Trek is mature about it. That idea would always have been dubious, but it was eradicated for good in the decon chamber. (Hmm, guess decon did do something.)

[evay]

I appreciate your fair-mindedness -- can't ask for more than that. I agree with you that Jammer's wrong, and we can agree to disagree about T/T.