Penny Arcade disses Harlan Ellison - The Five-Minute Forums

PointyHairedJedi · #1 09-27-2005, 08:08 PM

http://www.penny-arcade.com/news.php...005-09-26#2795

That Ellison guy has really mellowed over the years, hasn't he?

ijdgaf · #2 09-28-2005, 01:10 AM

I found that immensly hillarious.

Well, at least I'm not having a hero-worship crisis or anything. I've always found "City on the Edge of Forever" immensly overrated.

mudshark · #3 09-29-2005, 12:33 AM

Hmm, interesting.

It seems, though, that the remark by Ellison that Gabe described as being the opening salvo of their little exchage wasn't even directed at him, but at someone in the audience. Harlan's description appears here, partway down the page.

Edit: The thread I linked to above is continued from this one.

Zeke · #4 09-30-2005, 10:03 AM

Ellison's story seems the more credible to me, and while I have no great love for the man, I'm inclined to take his side here. He's certainly conducted himself better since the incident -- he's not the one tacitly approving of his fans' online "retaliation" attempts.

Gabe and Tycho are very funny guys, but they haven't earned their fame the way Ellison has. They don't seem to appreciate how lucky they are that out of so many great webcomics, Penny Arcade became the big success story. When they condescend to someone like Harlan Ellison or Scott McCloud or, heck, even Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson, I have trouble sympathizing with them.

They're just ordinary guys, a little older than me, who decided to make a website for much the same reasons I did. Now they're giving lectures at MIT, and hey, that's great. But they should have some respect for people who got to that level the hard way.

All that said... picturing Ellison's reaction to being called a Star Wars writer still has me in stitches.

mudshark · #5 10-01-2005, 06:32 AM

What continues to amuse me is that so many people (in threads at other boards) were willing to condemn Ellison for being a jerk to "Gabe" while, as anyone who has a decent knowledge of the subject knows, had he had any interest whatsoever in teaching "Gabe" a lesson for being a punk (which is most certainly what "Gabe" was doing), Harlan would have cut him off at the knees before "Gabe" had any idea what was going on.

That he posted the nonsense he did on the Penny Arcade website/blog makes "Gabe" look more the fool than anything Harlan Ellison said to him/about him, either at the con or afterward. His later post (after Penny Arcade fans trolled not only Ellison Webderland but Harlan's wife, as well) only slightly ameliorated his foolishness.

ijdgaf · #6 10-04-2005, 06:33 AM

Hmm, so there's more to the story, eh?

Still, Ellison looks the fool here to me. Here's why.

1) That thesis statement retort he gave. While elegant and, uh... lengthy, it's way too pretentious and overdrawn for me to take seriously. I think a five sentence paragraph probably could have done the trick there.

2) Neither Gabe, Tycho, or Harlan were trying to be intentionally mean in the scenario. Tycho was a bystander, Gabe was simply trying to make a taunting quip (not trying to engage in a real verbal smackdown), and Harlan was (allegedly) just joking around with a member of the audience. Did Harlan storm off stage? Maybe, maybe not. But I trust Gabe and Tycho enough where even if they did misunderstand his previous "insult", they didn't flat out lie. In the end, Harlan took offense, and G & T saw him as an ass. Since heresay over the past several decades or so seems to confirm that Mr. Ellison is indeed an ass, I say... what difference does it make anyway?

3) I didn't see Gabe as approving of the hacking attempts. He was surprised and awed by how loyal PA fans can be, but he was very clear about how misguided the attacks on his webmaster were. Yeah, he probably should've phrased it better. But he doesn't quite have the gift of word that Tycho has.

4) Uh... I never really liked Babylon 5. Too pretentious. Kinda like Mr. Ellison.

mudshark · #7 10-05-2005, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ijdgaf

1) That thesis statement retort he gave. While elegant and, uh... lengthy, it's way too pretentious and overdrawn for me to take seriously. I think a five sentence paragraph probably could have done the trick there.

Brevity has never been Harlan's style. He's always been one to address a subject thoroughly.

Quote:

2) Neither Gabe, Tycho, or Harlan were trying to be intentionally mean in the scenario. Tycho was a bystander, Gabe was simply trying to make a taunting quip (not trying to engage in a real verbal smackdown), and Harlan was (allegedly) just joking around with a member of the audience. Did Harlan storm off stage? Maybe, maybe not. But I trust Gabe and Tycho enough where even if they did misunderstand his previous "insult", they didn't flat out lie. In the end, Harlan took offense, and G & T saw him as an ass. Since heresay over the past several decades or so seems to confirm that Mr. Ellison is indeed an ass, I say... what difference does it make anyway?

No, no one was being mean, not at the con, anyway. Gabe's post at Penny Arcade made a much bigger thing of it than it really was. As a result, however, a few of Penny Arcade's fans went way off-track, one going so far as to make an unkind remark about Harlan's wife. Poor form, that.

As for Harlan being an ass, he's made a career of it, and done rather well at it. What he does, though, before getting off on a rant, is make damned sure he knows what he's talking about, something "Gabe" seems not to have learned yet.

Quote:

3) I didn't see Gabe as approving of the hacking attempts. He was surprised and awed by how loyal PA fans can be, but he was very clear about how misguided the attacks on his webmaster were. Yeah, he probably should've phrased it better. But he doesn't quite have the gift of word that Tycho has.

Well, yes and no. There was the bit where he remarked that he was trying not to laugh about the trolling.

Zeke · #8 10-05-2005, 05:13 PM

Shark, we get the message. You can stop putting Gabe's handle in quotes all the time.

Unless you're going to start using quotes for everybody at this board, that is -- after all, we too have chosen to go by catchier names we made up. (Except Derek. He's, like, confident or something.)

IJD: I think it's safe to assume that Ellison's influence on Babylon 5 was minimal. JMS never gave anyone else real power over his creation. I figure he just liked having Ellison's name in the credits.

Sa'ar Chasm · #9 10-05-2005, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Unless you're going to start using quotes for everybody at this board, that is -- after all, we too have chosen to go by catchier names we made up.

That's not true. I didn't make this name up, I stole it fair and square.

Derek · #10 10-05-2005, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke

(Except Derek. He's, like, confident or something.)

Ahem, "Doesn't Everyone Really Eat Kellogg's?"

Scooter · #11 10-06-2005, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke

(Except Derek. He's, like, confident or something.)

Ahem, "Doesn't Everyone Really Eat Kellogg's?"

I thought it stood for Deranged Ergonomics Require Extreme Knuckle-cracking.

Zeke · #12 10-06-2005, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke

(Except Derek. He's, like, confident or something.)

Ahem, "Doesn't Everyone Really Eat Kellogg's?"

But not everybody does act normal. The whole business just confuses me.

e of pi · #13 10-07-2005, 02:40 AM

I don't eat Kellog's and I am most certainly not normal. ADHD'll do that to you.

PointyHairedJedi · #14 10-07-2005, 10:22 AM

Well, if you were normal then I'm afraid we'd have had to ask you to leave. We just can't be doing with having that sort around here.

whoiam · #15 10-07-2005, 02:08 PM

I think we're allowed one normal person, just for the sake of variety, but no more...

Sa'ar Chasm · #16 10-07-2005, 02:42 PM

"Normal" is a setting on a washing machine.

Why be normal when you can be insane?

Derek · #17 10-07-2005, 03:09 PM

Okay, you people seem to be missing out on something. It's "Doesn't everyone act normal?" Not "Isn't everyone normal?". (Derek Ien?)

And Zeke, the questions are supposed to be existential and thought-provoking. Sort of like "Does a Vulcan bear spit in the woods?" with the opposite rhetorical answer.

Sa'ar Chasm · #18 10-07-2005, 03:58 PM

Quote:

And Zeke, the questions are supposed to be existential and thought-provoking. Sort of like "Does a Vulcan bear spit in the woods?" with the opposite rhetorical answer.

"Who cares?" has a rhetorical opposite? *g*

Chancellor Valium · #19 10-07-2005, 08:37 PM

Quote:

And Zeke, the questions are supposed to be existential and thought-provoking. Sort of like "Does a Vulcan bear spit in the woods?" with the opposite rhetorical answer.

Of course not. Spitting would be illogical. In any case, the Vulcan Science Directorate has declared that Vulcan bears which spit are impossible.

Gatac · #20 10-07-2005, 08:53 PM

Derek, where the Vulcan bear does its business is its business. (And I do hope you are referencing what I am referencing.)

Gatac