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Old 05-16-2005, 08:18 PM
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Default ENT 4x21: "Terra Prime"

This was an okay conclusion, I thought, though it had weaknesses. More on that later -- first let's get this thread actually existing. Man this place was dead on the weekend!
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Old 05-16-2005, 09:35 PM
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I can't believe they killed the baby. You know the series is cancelled. Even if this was written before the cancelling and not modified later, it must've been pretty clear that a "Go for broke" approach would have been appropriate. I'm not sure if I'm behind the TnT shippers, but dammit, giving them a baby and sending them off as an actual couple would have kicked my opinion way up.

That's not to say the alternative was poorly acted. Connor Trinneer, I salute you. That was some awesome emotional display. (And THIS is the guy you kill off in the finale? Idiots!)

Liked Archer's speech.

You know, I kinda get the feeling Enterprise ended with the Mirror Universe episodes for me. Demons and Terra Prime just couldn't compare.

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Old 05-16-2005, 10:56 PM
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I thought Demons-Terra Prime was the best example of Enterprise Season 4 to date. It felt very Trekkie to me.

More later. I just spent 15 minutes ranting about "TATV..." anyway.
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Old 05-17-2005, 03:06 AM
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Not too bad an ep...I got a kick out of T'Pol talking to the baby. It was actually getting into some good Trek stuff. I really had hope for the characters and felt good that this was a good way to end the series, leaving the characters open and full of possibilites, like they took a page out of Sam Watterson's book when, for the final Calvin and Hobbes cartoon, he left the future free to be imagined by the audience.

It was too bad that Elizabeth written in to die. Because it was at the end of series, they could have let her live. But having her die, while sad, again, left the future open for Trip and T'Pol

Yes, it really was a good ending to a series. But then came ep 4.22...
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Old 05-17-2005, 03:23 AM
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I loved this two parter. For me, it was one of my favs of Enterprise. I had to get tissues after for that end scene. I think this epsiode would have been a far better series finale than "These are the voyages..." More on my gripes about that in the other thread.
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Old 05-17-2005, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
I think this epsiode would have been a far better series finale than "These are the voyages..."
Agreed...more can seen about my opinion in the TATV thread, too
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Old 05-17-2005, 01:43 PM
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I mean think about it. Trips last line. "Phlox says that Human and vulcan DNA are comparable. So if we wanted, we could. That gives some comfort." So i'm paraphrasing cause I don't remember the exact thing after a week, but They're talking about Spock! Even I, one who doesn't watch TOS can appreciate that they're talking about him. And he *was* TOS. It was a nod to the series to come. A feature of all good prequals. And those two actors had such emotion in that scene of simple words that it was a very powerful ending.

I've decided. "These are the Voyages..." never happend. This is my series finale.
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Old 05-18-2005, 10:34 PM
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I'm with Celeste there. Really, my only two gripes with this episode aren't problems, just things I though could have been done even better.

1) Move the T/T scene to right before Archer's speech. Always end with something of an upper if possible. Also, the speech was more about Trek than final T/T scene was, and finales should end with more series-encompassing things.

2) The T/T scene... I thought it was perfectly fine that Elizabeth died (even a dramatic necessity) but let's at least USE the openings that gives us! Rather than just crying for a few minutes, I think that the mourning scene would have been perfect if, through the sobbing, Trip had managed to get out the words, "T'Pol... will you... *sob* marry me?"

Slam. Bang. Series ends.
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Old 05-18-2005, 10:54 PM
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NOnono, not married. That'd be moving way too fast for me. I like the scene just how it is. And like it as an ending. Though moving it before Archies speach would be good, too.
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Old 05-20-2005, 02:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wowbagger
I think that the mourning scene would have been perfect if, through the sobbing, Trip had managed to get out the words, "T'Pol... will you... *sob* marry me?"

Slam. Bang. Series ends.
In the first version of the script, there was an unansweared proposal to T'pol by Trip written in there, according to the Reeves-Stevens'. But it was taken out last minute. Do not ask why. :x
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Old 05-20-2005, 06:43 PM
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here's my oh so eloquent reply to Wowbagger's post about moving that TnT scene.

(Copied and pasted from my TaTV rant)

The end of Terra Prime was so pure and everything that Trek is about. Everything Enterprise is about. Not just the Trip and T'Pol stuff, but it really showed how far they'd come. In the first episode Trip hated Vulcans and T'Pol wouldn't shake Trip's hand or even call him Trip. In Demons/Terra Prime she only calls him Trip and they have this baby together. Then in that last scene she's in her Vulcan robes, like the way they first met. Only now they are holding hands with the IDIC enfolded between them. It speaks volumes. How much they have overcome and how much Enterprise has overcome. That to me is how I want to remember Enterprise's finale. Not a TNG episode addition.
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Old 05-20-2005, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by persianmouse
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wowbagger
I think that the mourning scene would have been perfect if, through the sobbing, Trip had managed to get out the words, "T'Pol... will you... *sob* marry me?"

Slam. Bang. Series ends.
In the first version of the script, there was an unansweared proposal to T'pol by Trip written in there, according to the Reeves-Stevens'. But it was taken out last minute. Do not ask why. :x
Too late. Where did you read this?
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Old 05-21-2005, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wowbagger
Quote:
Originally Posted by persianmouse
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wowbagger
I think that the mourning scene would have been perfect if, through the sobbing, Trip had managed to get out the words, "T'Pol... will you... *sob* marry me?"

Slam. Bang. Series ends.
In the first version of the script, there was an unansweared proposal to T'pol by Trip written in there, according to the Reeves-Stevens'. But it was taken out last minute. Do not ask why. :x
Too late. Where did you read this?
Oh, it was from the startrek.com podcast they did with Judith RS, I think. I read some transcripted bits on HoT. She was commenting on Terra Prime. They did a lot of work on that final scene. She said how everyone was crying on the set during that last scene and that no one wanted to kill the baby off. She did say they took out the proposal, saying something along the lines of 'it didn't work', or something. Personally, I blame it all on TaTV. Can't very well have TnT get engaged in one episode, just to find out in the next that they broke up just around the same time, with no explanation. Guess 'they' couldn't be bothered to write one.

God, I hate TaTV, I hate it like it killed my dog.
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Old 05-21-2005, 01:21 AM
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The problem with the two of them getting engaged is that they're simply not at that stage in their relationship. They have spent a year or two dancing, avoiding, dodging, angsting, taking advantage, and never quite honestly communicating. In "Bound," even though T'Pol explains that they have a telepathic bond (which is supposed to be a marriage bond), both of them declare "it's no big deal." In "Demons," Trip says "Ah am sick and tired of this 'bond' we've got!" and T'Pol replies "I don't particularly enjoy it either." Now, does that sound like two people ready to get hitched, baby or not?

If these two were ever going to end up together, they would have needed at least a year of first declaring out loud that they were dating and going to try to make it work and then actually being honest and open in working on it. None of this "Oh, it's nothing" followed by a heartbroken look crap. They would actually have to talk, both of them, about what each of them feels, and admit to what's going on.

Without that, without the real give-and-take which makes up a pairing, Trip and T'Pol are just a writers' contrivance to get the actors nekkid. The conversation at the end of "Terra Prime" was beautiful, but it was between two close friends who had shared a terrible loss.

I really believe in words. What people say is extremely important. If she repeatedly says "It was an experiment in sexuality," then it doesn't matter if her heart is in her eyes. Yes, in "Bound" she says "I want you back." Okay, for what? For a bedbuddy? For a lap dog? Because she took every opportunity from the Morning After in "Harbinger" to the very end of "Divergence" to say over and over that they were only friends and colleagues and there was nothing more she wanted to or could pursue between them. Can you blame Trip for believing her?

Why would he propose to her right now? Whatever he offered over the last two years she threw back in his face. The moment he pulled away she'd yank him back, not to give him anything of herself but simply to keep him near her and away from someone else. That's adolescent behavior. It's not two adults in a mature relationship. And teenagers shouldn't be getting married.
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Old 05-21-2005, 01:35 AM
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evay, normally I would agree with you here that it was way too soon for a marriage proposal, but considering the shit we got hurled at us from the f#cknale....

I'm not saying I wanted it (and I'm a TnTer!), I think the scene played out perfectly. But unlike you, I read into things, not a lot, but some. Words often mean not what they say. And JRS said it was an unansweared proposal. I could see Trip, in a moment of doubt and pain, asking T'pol to marry him, if for no other reason then for something to hang on to, if he was afraid of losing her too. But I'm not saying I wanted it to happen, it probably would've come off clunky. But again, considering the shitfest, it seems like less of a bad idea.

Quote:
If these two were ever going to end up together, they would have needed at least a year of first declaring out loud that they were dating and going to try to make it work and then actually being honest and open in working on it. None of this "Oh, it's nothing" followed by a heartbroken look crap. They would actually have to talk, both of them, about what each of them feels, and admit to what's going on.
Yep, totally agree, all that angsty crap got old fast. Manny put TnT on the 'backburner' in season 4, he had other stuff he wanted to do. He wanted to eventually get around to doing an adult relationship between TnT, that's yet another one of Manny's doomed little plans for the aborted season 5.

But that f#cknale never really happened, did it? That was just Commander Camera Hog's stupid malfunctiong holoprogram. Nope, Trip didn't die in a blaze of pathetic spazziness, not even a little. Ah, pretense !
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Old 05-21-2005, 09:01 AM
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I also found it a little hard to believe that Phlox was angsting about a baby that had been onboard less than a day dying and didn't care a lick when Sim, who was born and raised there, got the axe.

Nope, I'm still bitter about that. Enterprise has not got a good baby record.
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Old 05-21-2005, 01:59 PM
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Maverick! Come sit by me. I thought I was the only person still angry with Phlox for calling Sim his son and then turning his back while the poor man died. I will never, ever forgive Phlox and Archer for the heartless way they treated poor Sim.
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Old 05-21-2005, 08:07 PM
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Heck no! That's the episode I started hating Phlox (more). The only taped episode I have is Similitude, and I watch it at least once a month (skipping the last five minutes or so, of course.)

I usually end up finding some contrived way or another for both Sim and Trip to survive in my stories...
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Old 05-21-2005, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by persianmouse
But that f#cknale never really happened, did it? That was just Commander Camera Hog's stupid malfunctiong holoprogram. Nope, Trip didn't die in a blaze of pathetic spazziness, not even a little. Ah, pretense !
Ah, more converts... :twisted:

{from my LJ}
I have decided that Terra Prime Part 2 was the real series finale, and that TATV was just showing the legend of how the Enterprise ended its commision. In reality, Trip gave up the Andorians to the ugly aliens, and he and T'Pol lived in exile and had several happy little kids on Pluto. However, Starfleet didn't want anyone to know that, so they came up with the story about Trip sacrificing himself.
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Old 05-22-2005, 10:07 PM
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lol actually Opium I had made up my mind when the spoilers first came up not to watch TaTV. The spoilers were so unbelievable though that you wanted to keep an open mind, but the source of those spoilers was a friend from HoT BBS and I knew I had to believe it. Then it all turned out to be true. I will watch the thing if it ever reruns. Leave it to Friday the 13th power outage to save me from actually watching it as I had finally decided to do. I was going to give it a chance and find anyway I could to discredit it. But fate had other plans. It reruns on Sunday here so I set my timer before leaving to church. An I love Raymond marathon was on so all I got was Terra Prime. I knew then it had to be fate. Fate just didn't want me to see TaTV. Ok I know I can download to thing, but why go through all that effort and wait for the download using up my harddrive space when all I'm going to be is angry? Besides all I want to see are the scenes with Trip in em. Because I love Connor and I am always impressed with his acting and I hear he gave this crapfest his all so I feel I owe him that much. Anyways, just wanted you to know that while I'm not a convert since I had decided from day one to ignore the "finale", I am a member of your cause and perhaps you've heard of the house of Tucker? Yeah we're ALL in denial! There's even a fanfic challenge at the Trip/T'Poler's to fix the finale.
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