The Five-Minute Forums  

Go Back   The Five-Minute Forums > FiveMinute.net > Science Fiction

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #161  
Old 12-23-2018, 01:25 PM
NAHTMMM's Avatar
NAHTMMM NAHTMMM is offline
Noodles And Hot Tofu! MMM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: St Louis, MO, USA, . . .
Posts: 2,830
Send a message via Yahoo to NAHTMMM
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate the Great View Post
November 8th, 1968, "For The World is Hollow And I Have Touched the Sky"
Another episode with great character work and acting, but absolutely awful science and plot holes that could be fixed through dialogue without spending a cent.
These problems are super frustrating for me too.


Quote:
The Fiver

Spock: Aw. I know what will cheer you up - our 56th weekly cup of tea!
McCoy: Thanks, Spock. (picks a cup)
Spock: Um, no. Here, this one is yours.


Is this a reference to something?
No, just an implication that Spock's been gradually poisoning McCoy this whole time.


Quote:
Oracle: Oracle's Message of the Day #1 - Potatoes make you stupid.

Is this a reference to something?
I presume this is supposed to be the Usenet Oracle, which I'm too young to have had direct access to. Looks like it's still going here: https://internetoracle.org/ I have no idea about the potatoes.

Quote:
Oracle: Oracle's Message of the Day #2 - Do not meddle in the affairs of the Oracle, for thou art crunchy and taste good with strawberry pie.


Why strawberry pie and not ketchup, as is traditional with this joke?
Probably because this is Zeke's site.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiver
For a Space Italian woman who rides a warp bike, an eternity.
What a great line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate the Great View Post
November 22nd, 1968, "Plato's Stepchildren"
Alexander: I'm not even better than Philana due to her powers.
Kirk: I bet Chekov would love to meet these telekinetics. I bet he could best her.

I don't get the joke.
It has nothing to do with the actress and everything to do with a later Koenig role.

Quote:
Philana: To you and your fellowship we present gifts.
Kirk: Galadriel you're not.
Philana: Are you sure? We even have our own Hobbit.

The Lord of the Rings films were released in 2001-2003, and the fiver was published in 2005. I feel old.
Amen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by "The Empath" fiver
Thann: Their fears killed them; we did not. Show us how passionate you are.
Not a thing you want to say to Kirk.
__________________
My 5MV webpages My novel fivers list

Yup

“There must have been a point in early human history when it was actually advantageous to, when confronted with a difficult task, drop it altogether and go do something more fun, because I do that way too often for it to be anything but instinct.” -- Isto Combs
Reply With Quote
  #162  
Old 01-03-2019, 01:22 PM
Nate the Great's Avatar
Nate the Great Nate the Great is offline
Knate airrant
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 3,572
Default

January 3rd, 1969, "Whom Gods Destroy"


Fiver (by Nic)

Transcript
Memory Alpha


The Episode

* I'm still unsure how you can teach "cellular metamorphosis" to heal wounds, or how you go from being able to heal wounds to transforming your entire body. I think the implication is that Garth isn't a full-blown shapeshifter, but can just rearrange his skin and surface musculature. At least he doesn't have to recreate a functional commbadge like Odo apparently can.

* The codephrase is a good idea, but just opens more plotholes. Such precautions should be taken for most missions, and why was one instituted here? They didn't know there was a shapeshifter on the planet!
* I find it dubious that the Enterprise can't disable the shield without killing everybody on the planet. Surely the specs should be on file. Having Scotty say that it'll take some time to configure the phasers to disable the shield without killing everybody would accomplish the goal with fewer plotholes.

* I like how Chakoteya says that Marta's dance isn't as good as Vina's.

* Spock claims that Marta's dance is like what small Vulcan children do. I can appreciate that Vulcans would learn how to dance as a way to train their bodies how to move, and we know that Vulcans appreciate music.
* Garth has discovered more new worlds than any other man in history. This is a problem. Since he specifically calls Shakespeare an Earth man, he is evidently not human himself. Fair enough. Kirk studied Garth's career at the Academy, so Garth's heyday was at least twenty years ago. This is before the Constitution Class era by any definition. While we know little of the classes used in the early 23th century, I wonder if he was on a Bonaventure class or an Antares type. Going into the FASA RPG universe, the Mann, Ranger, and Baton Rouge classes also seem probable. All of these were undoubtedly smaller than the Constitution class, and thus had a smaller range and shorter missions than the days of Pike and Kirk. Also, the title of "discovered the most worlds" seems destined to be held by a Vulcan if you ask me.
* Garth implies that he will conquer the surrounding galaxies. How? Even with Kelvan upgrades it would take hundreds of years to get to another galaxy!
* Garth's attempt to trick Kirk into revealing the countersign is stupid. Even if "queen to queen's level three" is a valid opening move in 3D chess, there's more than one possible countering move! I doubt that even grandmasters can figure out their opponent's strategy based on a single move! Skipping straight to the agonizer would make more sense.
* I've long wondered what "Cochrane deceleration" entails. Putting aside the face that I doubt Zephram Cochrane was ever in a battle, this thing almost seems like a reverse Picard Maneuver.
* Is this the first instance of "shoot us both, it's the only way!"?
* Immediate reversal of brain damage from an injection? How is that supposed to work?


The Fiver

Garth: I am Lord Garth, and they call me Master of the Universe!
Kirk: Why don't they call you Skeletor?
Garth: Enough with the silly cartoon references! I will have none of that! Now give me control of your ship!
Kirk: I will not.
Garth: By the power of Greyskull, oh yes you will! (shapeshifts into Kirk)



I'm still a little confused about who the "Masters of the Universe" are. I care not for the 2002 series, and in the original show He-Man's friends are called the Heroic Warriors. Is "Masters of the Universe" supposed to be a broader term that refers to anyone who has access to "The secrets of Castle Greyskull?"


Garth: HA! Fooled you! Now you shall witness my coronation into Lord of the Galaxy, Master of the Universe and Secretary of State for White Fish!


I can't find reference to a country or government called "White Fish". There are a few places in Canada and the northern United States called that, but nothing with a "Secretary of State."



Nitpickers Guide

* The Tellarite makeup here is much better than in "Journey to Babel."
* Phil wonders about how this episode mentions a second mutiny on a starship, when in "The Tholian Web" the Defiant was seemingly the first mutiny on a starship. I think the simplest explanation (besides "the writers didn't care", of course) is that this ties back to the whole "starship=Constitution Class" thing and that Garth clearly wasn't on a Constitution Class ship.
__________________
mudshark: Nate's just being...Nate.
Zeke: It comes nateurally to him.

mudshark: I don't expect Nate to make sense, really -- it's just a bad idea.

Sa'ar Chasm on the 5M.net forum: Sit back, relax, and revel in the insanity.

Adam Savage: I reject your reality and substitute my own!

Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Crow T. Robot: Oh, stop pretending there's a plot. Don't cheapen yourself further.
Reply With Quote
  #163  
Old 01-11-2019, 12:21 AM
Nate the Great's Avatar
Nate the Great Nate the Great is offline
Knate airrant
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 3,572
Default

January 10th, 1969, "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield"

Fiver (by IJD GAF)
Transcript
Memory Alpha

The Episode

Captain's log, stardate 5730.2. The planet Ariannus is vital as a transfer point on regular space commercial lanes. It has been attacked by a bacterial invasion which threatens to render it lifeless unless checked. Our mission, to decontaminate it.

This implies that they wouldn't bother if Ariannus wasn't a transfer point. I know that wasn't the intention, but that's how it reads. Who cares how important the planet is, it's a Federation world in crisis!

SULU: Captain, sensors indicate a space vehicle of some sort ahead.
KIRK: Is it within visual range?
SULU: Coming into range now, sir. It's following a very erratic course.
KIRK: Put it on the screen, extreme magnification.
(A wobbly shuttlecraft appears on the viewscreen.)
CHEKOV: I think that may be a Starfleet shuttlecraft.
SPOCK: That is exactly what it is, Mister Chekov.


So a Starfleet ship can't identify another Starfleet ship at this range? What does this plot point achieve except making everyone look inept?

SPOCK: Captain, there is one living creature aboard. Humanoid. He is either injured or ill.

This is extremely petty, but I wonder why readings that indicate injury and readings that indicate sickness are so close as to be mistaken for each other. Why is this line here?

KIRK: Do we have any knowledge of a planet that could have produced such a race of beings?
SPOCK: Negative, Captain.
KIRK: Bones, what do you make of it?
MCCOY: Well, I can't give you any specific circumstance that will explain him.


Look, we could name any number of alien races that defy the common sense interpretation of evolution to create features that would be impossible to explain via natural selection. Voyager featured a race that had a strip of flesh connecting their nose to their chin, and SF Debris has a whole rant about this topic. I get that the vertical dividing line is great for quick identification and a source of petty prejudice, but there were alternate, more evolutionary sound options. One that comes to mind immediately is the skin color of one is the same as the hair and eye color of the other, and vice versa. Make sure both have beards to make the hair color more prominent, etc.

KIRK: Don't you usually know whose property you've stolen?
LOKAI: I am not a thief.
KIRK: Well, certainly no ordinary thief, considering what it is you appropriated.
LOKAI: You're being very loose with your accusations and drawing conclusions without any facts.
KIRK: Well, I do know you made off with a ship that didn't belong to you.
LOKAI: I do not make off with things. My need gave me the right to use the ship. Mark the word, sir, the use of it.

Yeah, that doesn't work. He's a thief.

BELE: We're on the way to Cheron. Captain, this ship is now under my direction.

So is there some form of device that's locked the course a la the Kelvans, or is Bele controlling the ship through sheer will? And if the latter, why can't Lolai counter it?
__________________
mudshark: Nate's just being...Nate.
Zeke: It comes nateurally to him.

mudshark: I don't expect Nate to make sense, really -- it's just a bad idea.

Sa'ar Chasm on the 5M.net forum: Sit back, relax, and revel in the insanity.

Adam Savage: I reject your reality and substitute my own!

Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Crow T. Robot: Oh, stop pretending there's a plot. Don't cheapen yourself further.
Reply With Quote
  #164  
Old 01-11-2019, 12:21 AM
Nate the Great's Avatar
Nate the Great Nate the Great is offline
Knate airrant
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 3,572
Default

SPOCK: This is Commander Spock, science officer. Destruct sequence number two, code one, one A, two B.
...
SCOTT: This is Lieutenant Commander Scott, chief engineering officer of the USS Enterprise. Destruct sequence number three, code one B, two B, three.
...
KIRK: Computer, this is Captain James Kirk of the USS Enterprise. Begin thirty second countdown. Code zero, zero, zero, destruct zero.

It's nice that they reproduced the TOS destruct sequence for STIII. Isn't it nice when the creators care about their own history and continuity, not changing things that don't have to be changed?

BELE: It is obvious to the most simpleminded that Lokai is of an inferior breed.
SPOCK: The obvious visual evidence, Commissioner, is that he is of the same breed as yourself.
BELE: Are you blind, Commander Spock? Well, look at me. Look at me!
KIRK: You're black on one side and white on the other.
BELE: I am black on the right side.
KIRK: I fail to see the significant difference.
BELE: Lokai is white on the right side. All of his people are white on the right side.

And...? So...? But...? Therefore...? I'm not seeing the argument here, which is a key reason why the racism allegory sort of falls flat. In the real world we have racism because of more substantial (if illogical and unethical) reasons. At least claim that the black-right-siders invented fire/gunpowder/nuclear bombs/warp drive/whatever first or the white-right-siders were lazy/hippies/Amish-ish throughout history. SOMETHING.

UHURA: It doesn't make any sense.
SPOCK: To expect sense from two mentalities of such extreme viewpoints is not logical.
SULU: But their planet's dead. Does it matter now which one's right?
SPOCK: Not to Lokai and Bele. All that matters to them is their hate.
UHURA: Do you suppose that's all they ever had, sir?
KIRK: No, but that's all they have left.

A great moral, if a bit hamfisted.

The Fiver

Captain's Log: We will soon begin "Operation Detox." Once we reach the planet Ariannus, we shall commence decontamination by rubbing a special gel all over its --

Assuming that this is referring to sanitizer gel, that doesn't really "detoxify" anything. A good joke if a bit illogical.

Spock: But Captain, it might be dangerous.
Kirk: Who do I look like, Captain Esteban?


Nice Search for Spock reference. He was a real shmuck.






__________________
mudshark: Nate's just being...Nate.
Zeke: It comes nateurally to him.

mudshark: I don't expect Nate to make sense, really -- it's just a bad idea.

Sa'ar Chasm on the 5M.net forum: Sit back, relax, and revel in the insanity.

Adam Savage: I reject your reality and substitute my own!

Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Crow T. Robot: Oh, stop pretending there's a plot. Don't cheapen yourself further.
Reply With Quote
  #165  
Old 01-17-2019, 11:12 PM
Nate the Great's Avatar
Nate the Great Nate the Great is offline
Knate airrant
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 3,572
Default

January 17th, 1969, "The Mark of Gideon"

Fiver (by IJD GAF)
Transcript
Memory Alpha

Let's get this out of the way up front: if this society is so crowded that they presumably only operate essential industries, where did they get the resources to build a duplicate Enterprise? Even if you say that all of the nonessential tech was omitted and faked, a lot of the tech had to be real:
* The gravitational strength on board the ship is so specific that that artificial gravity had to be present in the duplicate. Unless you're going to tell me that this planet is so like Earth that the gravitational constant is exactly one gee. Any Starfleet officer should be able to tell when the gravity on board ship feels wrong.

* The air has to be exactly the same as the Enterprise. The same oxygen content, it has to smell the same, etc.

* The carpet has to feel exactly the same, the lights have to be the same wavelength and brightness, the background hum has to be the same, etc.


The Episode

Captain's log, stardate 5423.4. We are orbiting the planet Gideon, which is still not a member of the United Federation of Planets. The treaty negotiations have been difficult because Gideon has consistently refused the presence of a delegation from the Federation on its soil, or any surveillance by the ship's sensors. They have finally agreed to a delegation of one. They insisted it be the Captain of the Enterprise. I am, therefore, beaming down at once.

1. "No delegation on it's soil"=either beam up the Gideon party, or refuse their attempts until they agree to let people beam down.
2. "It must be a delegation of one"=You refuse until they take back this ludicrous request.
3. "It has to be Kirk"=You tell them that Kirk isn't a diplomat and has duties elsewhere.

KIRK [OC]: I am alone on the Enterprise. I have searched every area of the ship and still cannot find a trace of the crew, or an indication of how its disappearance was managed.

In the expanded universe materials, it's said that you can walk all of the corridors in eight hours. I assume that this doesn't include poking your head in all the doors. If Kirk's been here for half a day, does this mean that the Gideonites reproduced ship water and food as well?

SPOCK: Institute a sensor scan three hundred and sixty degrees, one degree at a time.
MCCOY: You mean you're going to scan space for him?
SULU: But, sir, that could take years.
SPOCK: Then the sooner you begin, the better.

Putting aside the two-dimensional thinking quote from Wrath of Khan, scanning a solar system for one specific human shouldn't take "years". In fact, scanning a solar system end to end completely shouldn't take "years"!

SPOCK: Lieutenant Uhura, has Starfleet honoured our request with a reply?
UHURA: There has been no response as yet, sir.
SPOCK: Did you advise them the captain's life is at stake?
UHURA: Yes, sir. They insist that the matter must be referred to the Federation.
SPOCK: What department?
UHURA: Bureau of Planetary Treaties.
SPOCK: Contact them directly.
UHURA: I did, Mister Spock. They insist that we must go through Starfleet channels.


This is clearly a Starfleet matter, not a general Federation matter. What did this achieve except portraying the Federation as a non-optimal bureaucracy?

(Kirk presses a button, but the steel shutter does not raise)
KIRK: If it works.
(uses a manual override, and the shutters slide open to reveal faces which are then replaced by a starfield.)

This is absurd. Either put a proper functioning starfield outside or make the shutters unopenable.

ADMIRAL [on viewscreen]: I sympathize deeply, but Starfleet cannot override Federation directives in this matter.

What matter? What directives? I hope it's not the Prime Directive, because these people clearly have subspace radio, which implies that they are warp-capable.

HODIN: What is it like to feel pain?
ODONA: It is like, like when you see the people have no hope for happiness, Father. You feel great despair, and your heart is heavy because you know you can do nothing. Pain is like that.

I just don't understand this metaphor. I get what the writers were going for, but this is just nonsense.

HODIN: Yes. As Odona told you, we have no need for medical practitioners here.

I hate it when scifi societies think that "no illness"="no need for doctors". People will still sprain angles and break arms. OBGYNs and coroners will still be needed.


__________________
mudshark: Nate's just being...Nate.
Zeke: It comes nateurally to him.

mudshark: I don't expect Nate to make sense, really -- it's just a bad idea.

Sa'ar Chasm on the 5M.net forum: Sit back, relax, and revel in the insanity.

Adam Savage: I reject your reality and substitute my own!

Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Crow T. Robot: Oh, stop pretending there's a plot. Don't cheapen yourself further.
Reply With Quote
  #166  
Old 01-17-2019, 11:13 PM
Nate the Great's Avatar
Nate the Great Nate the Great is offline
Knate airrant
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 3,572
Default

The Fiver

Kirk: You do realize that with things as they are, it may become necessary for us to repopulate the universe.
Odona: No, sorry. I don't know where I'm from.
Kirk: Huh?


What does knowing where you're from have to do with having kids? Wouldn't this have been a good place for Odona to declare herself to be a lesbian and Kirk kicking himself about it?

Hodin: Yep, tee hee! Gideon is a paradise where people live practically forever. Our birthrate rose to the point where the whole planet is one huge mosh pit.
Kirk: So you needed me to control the population with my QTPM?
Hodin: Yep. Quite The Phantom Menace, aren't I?

Which direction was this Phantom Menace joke supposed to go? Were they implying that watching Episode One decreases the odds of having sex?

Memory Alpha

* Only appearance of a regular exterior viewing port.
* People asked how Kirk is allowed to serve if he's so infectious. Good point.


__________________
mudshark: Nate's just being...Nate.
Zeke: It comes nateurally to him.

mudshark: I don't expect Nate to make sense, really -- it's just a bad idea.

Sa'ar Chasm on the 5M.net forum: Sit back, relax, and revel in the insanity.

Adam Savage: I reject your reality and substitute my own!

Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Crow T. Robot: Oh, stop pretending there's a plot. Don't cheapen yourself further.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.