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Old 05-11-2004, 12:24 AM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]Read May 10 news update, which references http://www.faans.com/.

That's an interesting viewpoint, but I disagree with the assertion.

- With regard to Trek selling sex, it's my view that Trek has always sold sex. Those miniskirts on TOS don't strike me as probable attire for a starship. And as much as you can say "well, it was the 60s," The Cage had women in long pants. As for Troi, Dax, 7of9, and T'Pol, well, those characters have always been played up as being the pretty one that all the fanboys are going to obsess over.

- As for T'Pol's abuse, I don't perceive it as such. Sure, T'Pol has had difficulties in her journey, but Archer and Trip have got their own problems too.

- The further point about the relative underuse of Hoshi isn't specific to Hoshi. Mayweather is the most neglected character, then Hoshi, then Reed and Phlox. Really Enterprise has revisited TOS's Big-Three formula, and it works for it.

- Lastly, I find it interesting that he didn't like Fusion. Sure, T'Pol's rape was disturbing, but it was supposed to be. I thought the episode was well handled.

Anyway, it was an interesting read. Thanks for the link, Zeke.

Anyone else want to share their perspective?[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 05-11-2004, 01:49 AM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0][quoteost_uid0]She's been raped, tortured, driven out of her mind at LEAST three times, infected with AIDS, practically shat upon by her own people, and turned into a crack whore.[/quoteost_uid0]
T'Pol is Chekov's grandma! :O I never knew Vulcan was settled by Russians...


I dunno. I haven't been keeping up with Trek lately, but I'm fairly certain the novels haven't been that mean to females.[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 05-11-2004, 04:30 AM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]Whatever double standard is there has always been there (well, at least since "Where No Man Has Gone before"). Even on the rape issue: Bad Kirk tried to rape Rand, Troi was psychically raped, and so on.

And unfortunately "Turnabout Intruder" embedded sexism in Starfleet culture forever.[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 05-11-2004, 06:27 AM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]I think maybe in an attempt to get women to have more screen time, they went waaaaaaayyy


oooovverrr


board.

Crusher, Tasha, Troi, Dax, Kira, Ezri, Janeway and Kes all were well-rounded characters. They didnt need to overplay them. They were all pretty, yes, but they had OTHER TALENTS which were MUCH MORE IMPORTANT than their looks. Hoshie seems like an attempt to do this again, but instead she's simply recieved a lack of air time. Hoshi's the sweet, cute girl next door, and for reason, that no longer cuts it on Trek. She was an interesting character, but like Mayweather, she's now more of a set dressing. At least she isnt a prop, being used by other characeters...

At least Hoshi gets to have decendants, unlike Reed...[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 05-11-2004, 01:41 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]I don't particularly agree with the conclusions that were drawn either. This fella makes some interesting points, but the thing is, [iost_uid0]Enterprise[/iost_uid0] really isn't like all the other Trek shows that have gone before. Whereas they were at least trying sometimes to show serious, intelligent sci-fi, ENT has from the very beginning been primarily after one thing - popularity. Now of course, a show needs to be popular to survive, whatever it's genre, but when you take that too far, to show suffers and the whole thing backfires on you. What this guy is on about is really only a symptom of this, not the problem in of itself.[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 05-11-2004, 07:41 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]There's also the small issue of the fact that [iost_uid0]woman in trouble![/iost_uid0] is compelling.

There's always the psycho-boyfriend story, the stalker story (complete with lingering image of the woman asleep in bed), etc etc

It's a new variant of the heroine getting tied to railroad tracks. The underlying motivation is the same: be compelling.

Meh. S'nothing new.[/colorost_uid0]



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Old 05-11-2004, 07:50 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]Yeah, [iost_uid0]Men with Toys[/iost_uid0] and [iost_uid0]Women in Trouble[/iost_uid0] are two very, very recurring themes. Recently, [iost_uid0]Women with Toys[/iost_uid0] has become strong, but for the most part, you can't have a heroine in your movie without at least one moment of emotional tension/anguish or extreme physical danger.

So, it's not only Enterprise.

Gatac[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 05-11-2004, 07:57 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0][quoteost_uid0="Gatac"]...[iost_uid0]Women with Toys[/iost_uid0]...[/quoteost_uid0]
:lol:

Just chalk this one up to my juvenile sense of humour.[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 05-11-2004, 08:16 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]Oh, come on. I've noticed a large increase in the "Women with BFGs" over the last two decades.

Gatac[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 05-12-2004, 05:34 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0][quoteost_uid0]...Women with Toys...[/quoteost_uid0]
[quoteost_uid0]Just chalk this one up to my juvenile sense of humour.[/quoteost_uid0]

It's not juvenile at all: there's a very successful U.S. chain of women-owned sex shops called Toys in Babeland. Honestly.[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 05-12-2004, 06:44 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]Now, now, people, we're steering into very dangerous waters. After all, I was talking about the other, perfectly moral and safe kind of toys: firearms.

Mind you, there are people who associate these two different kinds of toys, but we're not at Five Minute Fetishes here, are we?

On the other hand, I can't deny that all those pictures of women on motorcycles hefting large automatic weapons do have a very distinct Freudian element to them. As for the novelty goods store, well, sure, more power to them. Doesn't mean I need to have pieces of molded rubber waved in front of my face when I have dinner. :|

Gatac[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 05-12-2004, 08:40 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]Good god, man. Who do you eat dinner with? :O[/colorost_uid0]
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