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Old 04-23-2005, 02:01 AM
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Default ENT 4x18 - In A Mirror, Darkly - Part I

Oh my gosh, that was the coolest episode ever.

-They redid First Contact.
-They redid the credits (I love it when shows do that.)
- MU and TOS.

I'm still gushing. This is really one of my favorite episodes of the season, if not the series.
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Old 04-23-2005, 02:36 AM
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See, my only problem is that this wasn't really an episode of the series. Don't get me wrong, I loved it too, but Trek's AU episodes have worked because they were still based on "our" characters and their reactions to weird new realities. Even the biowhatever clones in "Course: Oblivion" were based on the VOY crew in every sense but the physical, so watching them taught us something about the characters. The mirror universe is so exaggerated, so far removed from our world, that the characters we saw this week tell us nothing about the real ones. With only five episodes of Enterprise left, it's a shame that two are being spent on a different ship and crew.

(Angel ran into this problem in Season 4. Everybody loves Angelus, but in order for him to be around, Angel can't be. That wasn't a big deal on BVS; on Angel, however, the main character of the show was supposed to be, you know, on it. The episodes were still great, but they felt like a side trip sometimes.)
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Old 04-23-2005, 02:02 PM
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Well, I certainly didn't see that one coming. The beginning was brilliant. I hope they explain this quickly, though.

And I haven't followed TOS. Was there a starship Defiant back then I should know about?

Also, I wonder, did the borg intervene in this timeline too? Did Picard and crew help there too? And were they our Picard and crew or evil Picard and crew?
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Old 04-23-2005, 03:43 PM
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I think everyone is being critical on the fact that they shouldn't be spending time in the AU with only 5 epsiodes left. But at the time of filming, they didn't know that they would be canceled. (okay, so they had a really really good idea they would, but we'll forget it) And besides, I watch Trek to learn about the universe, the species that inhabit it, and follow the events that take place in it. The continuity and ripples that spread through this universe are what make Star Trek what it is. No other television show can say they do what Star Trek does.

That is why I think it's great to see an AU episode from Enterprise's time. Sure it would have been better if the real crew would have been involved. But then everyone would be complaining about continueity! "ARARARAR They didn't know about the AU until TOS!!!!" You can't win either way. And, I don't get how they traveled in time, either. None of the other universes did that. But, with two part episodes, you always have to leave judgement until you've seen the whole thing. We've learned that in the past.

But for now, i'm going to go watch that episode again.
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Old 04-23-2005, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michiel
And I haven't followed TOS. Was there a starship Defiant back then I should know about?
Yes, in the episode The Tholian Web.
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Old 04-23-2005, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michiel
Also, I wonder, did the borg intervene in this timeline too? Did Picard and crew help there too? And were they our Picard and crew or evil Picard and crew?
In the Reeves-Stevens' MU trilogy with William Shatner's name on it, one character (Spock, I think) does some digging and finds that the first point in history where the two universes differ is First Contact. I'm guessing that the R-Ses are basing this two-parter on the same MU backstory, because that gives the teaser special importance -- it shows the moment of divergence, where the MU became the MU.

What's harder to figure out is exactly what went differently. The obvious explanation is that because the Terran Empire was so different from the Federation, for one reason or another the Borg never encountered them; so the Enterprise never went back in time; so Cochrane conducted his launch as originally planned without hearing about the peaceful society he'd create; so his mistrust after WWIII won out and he shot the Vulcan; so the Terran Empire arose, completing a lovely little circle of causality. This would also explain why the shots of Next Gen characters in the crowd were cut out. The only problem is that the Enterprise apparently DID travel back in time in the books. At one point Janeway's MU counterpart mentions that Lake Sloane is called Lake Riker in her universe. (Sloane is Lily's last name.) I don't remember what the final word on this was in the books; it's probably in the conclusion, Preserver, if you care to look it up.

For more info, try Memory Alpha's MU page, particularly the italicized section at the end.
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Old 04-23-2005, 09:46 PM
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I just found the pertinent chapter of Dark Victory online (in French, of all things) and I can correct a couple of details in my post. First, it was actually Spock and mirror-Spock together who looked into this issue. Second, humans have encountered the Borg in the MU -- and by "encountered" I mean "wiped the floor with." They were aware of the threat sooner and prepared for it better. As we saw in last night's episode, the Terran Empire focused far more heavily on weapons than on anything else, like safe warp core design; we also know the Borg haven't been around as long as one might guess, since the Vaadwaur were the Delta Quadrant's big shots 900 years ago. With that information in mind, it's not too big a stretch that the Empire could have overpowered the Borg in, say, the early 2200s.
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[03:17] FiveMinZeke: Galactica clearly needs the advanced technology of scissors, which get around the whole "yanking on your follicles" problem.
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Old 04-24-2005, 03:24 PM
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The TOS Defiant you're looking for is, appropriately, from "The Tholian Web."
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Old 04-24-2005, 04:11 PM
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Enterprise really makes me want to watch TOS. And I never liked TOS!
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Old 04-24-2005, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste
Enterprise really makes me want to watch TOS. And I never liked TOS!
I imagine you'll enjoy it a lot more than you expect to.

My girlfriend is...
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Old 04-24-2005, 11:11 PM
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Your girlfriend is a .gif file?

I always kind of suspected....
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[03:17] FiveMinZeke: Galactica clearly needs the advanced technology of scissors, which get around the whole "yanking on your follicles" problem.
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Old 04-24-2005, 11:15 PM
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Zing!
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Old 04-25-2005, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
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Your girlfriend is a .gif file?
Yeah, and she's a little smiley if I might say so myself.
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Old 04-25-2005, 01:57 AM
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I thought they were really dumb to do the MU so close to finale time... but it was so COOL! And obviously, the fan reception was great, and the ratings were actually UP .2 points on a night when about half the country got pre-empted! So it obviously worked out.

http://zach.gqfleet.net/MirrorOpeningCredits.avi

Very cool file there.
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Old 04-26-2005, 12:28 AM
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No kidding.

I liked it a lot, but...it's not like Faith of the Heart ever really bugged me at all.
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Old 04-26-2005, 01:23 AM
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Not too bad an episode...but it did make me miss some of the best crossover and MU eppies EVER...the ones done by DS9!

I do think it's a bit odd doing one so close to the season finale without it being a cliffhanger, nevermind the series finale...but hey, it was entertaining, and very TOS-esque...campy, fun, quirky, and down n dirty. Just needed Sulu with some kirate moves...

"I find that offensive. Just because I'm of Japanese ancestry you assume I know karate." Wait, no, that was Futurama...

Good TOS-inspired ep, nonetheless
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Old 04-26-2005, 02:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opium
Not too bad an episode...but it did make me miss some of the best crossover and MU eppies EVER...the ones done by DS9!
As much as I love the DS9 MU episodes, one of the things I liked about this episode is that it is still in the days before the Terran Empire fell. Humans aren't the underdogs, they're the big dogs. It was a nice change, and of course a throwback to "Mirror, Mirror".

Of course, if they want to take a page from DS9's book and kill off main characters left and right (I do have a feeling Forrest's days are numbered), I have no problem with that.
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Old 04-26-2005, 02:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek

Of course, if they want to take a page from DS9's book and kill off main characters left and right (I do have a feeling Forrest's days are numbered), I have no problem with that.

As long as there 'ships left and right, too! :P
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Old 04-26-2005, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opium
Not too bad an episode...but it did make me miss some of the best crossover and MU eppies EVER...the ones done by DS9!
As much as I love the DS9 MU episodes --
I trust you both stop sometime before "The Emperor's New Cloak"....

Quote:
Of course, if they want to take a page from DS9's book and kill off main characters left and right (I do have a feeling Forrest's days are numbered), I have no problem with that.
Didn't Forrest already die? I thought he was on Enterprise when it blew.
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Old 04-26-2005, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke
I trust you both stop sometime before "The Emperor's New Cloak"....
Actually I don't think it's as bad as everyone makes out, though it is one of the weakest episodes (either that one or "Resurrection"). I kinda like seeing Rom trying to make sense of the MU.

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Didn't Forrest already die? I thought he was on Enterprise when it blew.
Okay, I thought everyone on Enterprise died. I thought the escape pods were destroyed either by the Tholians or by their web. But then the preview for next week shows Hoshi magically aboard the Defiant somehow, so I'm not taking anything for granted until I see Forrest's dead, cold body floating in space (or at least some dialog saying he's dead).
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