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Old 03-04-2004, 05:16 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]So what'd everyone think?

I liked it a lot. It really moved the plot along well. And [iost_uid0]Daniels[/iost_uid0] was back! Neat.

Other points:
- T'Pol's acting strangely. She even shouted at Trip. Either she's trying to retcon Spock's yelling, or we're going to see some interesting developments with her.
- Archer feels guilty for the lives he killed? That's a neat twist.
- This had better not end up being a reset button![/colorost_uid0]
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Old 03-05-2004, 12:40 AM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0][quoteost_uid0="Derek"]T'Pol's acting strangely. She even shouted at Trip. Either she's trying to retcon Spock's yelling, or we're going to see some interesting developments with her.[/quoteost_uid0]
trektoday.com has a spoiler up which I won't say here about the T'pol behavior thing. But supposidly the writers do have a plan in mind. Took them bloody long enough to tell us.

This episode was really good though. The end battle scene I was on the edge of my seat. (Actualy holding up the headphones to my ears so that my noisey family wouldn't interrupt the last few minutes.) I enjoyed it and am looking forward to part two. The ep was definatly remeniscent of all the DS9 eps i've been watching. (Yay for DVDs and Bittorrent!)
[quoteost_uid0]
This had better not end up being a reset button![/quoteost_uid0]
Based on what we've seen in other Enterprise eps.. i'm gonna guess that this will be a semi-reset button. [/colorost_uid0]
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Old 03-05-2004, 02:58 AM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]I enjoyed this one too, it was the first ep i had watched in a while, after Harbringer i was thhhhhhhhhhhhis close to giveing up on ent all together, but i'm glad i tuned in. i'm defintly going to have to try and tape the replay on sunday.[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 03-05-2004, 03:55 AM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]And now, random thoughts:

I was watching the final battle sequence without a clock. The way the ep had been moving, I thought we had a good ten, twenty minutes left. So when the credit came up, I yelped pretty good.

If this is a reset button, there will be pain. They reset Twilight ( duh! ), they reset Similitude, though not temporally, T'Pol denied anything by the end of Harbinger, and Hatchery resulted in no real development. But I think we're probably safe. If it were a reset, they would have ended with the ship blowing up.

Nice Ent-J. I used to do some fan fiction about that ship, so it was particularly cool for me. If the Sphere Builders are named Scaldens or the captain's name is Hanson, you'll know who's been hanging out at my site.

I am very glad to know T'Pol has something weird going on. I've defended her, but this week was too much for me to rationalize.

I thought at first that they'd kill Mayweather. I was kind of looking forward to it, as he'd finally get some screen time. What's everyone else think?

Finally, the music was really good. At the very end, I liked how the music switched from action to just sheer hopelessness. Much like when Gandalf fell at the bridge at Khazad-Dum in the movie version of LOTR.

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Old 03-05-2004, 07:28 AM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]Holy shiznit, somebody cranked the "engaging" knob way past the safe levels. Had me on the edge of my seat.

So there's reason to T'Pol's madness? Praise the Powers That Be, and pray they manage to make it work. My hopes are a bit higher after this. For some reason, I really liked the delivery of her line in the ready room when she said something to the effect of "When they need me, they'll call." I don't know why, it's not really that important to the plot, but the delivery - something about it sparked. On a slightly negative note, though, having her cry perhaps wasn't the best thing to do even with a masterplan behind it.

Now forgive me if I'm being blasphemic, but the future segment was the weakest link for me. Daniels looked downright silly, and I'm not so sure about the Enterprise-J. Perhaps they simply shouldn't have shown a schematic, since having one pisses off fans on both sides of the lineage discussion. I, for example, would have liked something more organic-looking, others may have liked this one. Also, there are lots of neat [fan] designs for future ships - anybody else think that this would have made a really nice contest? (Submit your design for the Enterprise-J!) Also, I'm still wary about the retroactive insertion of the Xindi into this future timeline. If there's still enough Xindi to go around that some are in Starfleet (heck, the dialogue implies there are *multiple* Xindi on the Enterprise alone), how come we never saw them? I'm sure you can rationalise it away somehow, but the writers really shot themselves in the foot here.

Also, lots of past references. I cringed a bit whenever they talked about Carpenter Street, but I admit it made sense. I'm willing to say "Yeah, kids, it's continuity."

Overall, two thumbs up.

Gatac[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 03-05-2004, 12:44 PM
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[quoteost_uid0="Guest"][color=#000000ost_uid0]If it were a reset, they would have ended with the ship blowing up.[/colorost_uid0][/quoteost_uid0]
[color=#000000ost_uid0]Agreed. If the second part is going to be a reset, it needs to be telegraphed in the first episode so everyone knows to expect it. But none of the main characters died and the ship has yet to actually be destroyed. Hence if they reset it, I think I'll be a bit miffed.

[quoteost_uid0]If there's still enough Xindi to go around that some are in Starfleet (heck, the dialogue implies there are *multiple* Xindi on the Enterprise alone), how come we never saw them? I'm sure you can rationalise it away somehow, but the writers really shot themselves in the foot here.[/quoteost_uid0]
Not really. Where were the Andorians in TNG/DS9/VOY? Where were the Tellarites in those series? A number of TOS characters never showed up in later series (until ENT), so why should Xindi be so different?[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 03-05-2004, 12:57 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0][quoteost_uid0="Derek"]Not really. Where were the Andorians in TNG/DS9/VOY? Where were the Tellarites in those series? A number of TOS characters never showed up in later series (until ENT), so why should Xindi be so different?[/quoteost_uid0]

Point taken, but then, I never liked this kind of run on new species before. A stray Tellarite or Andorian (heck, not even a speaking part, just an extra) for flavour wouldn't have hurt. It also bears some examination whether they were at least mentioned in one of the newer series, seeing how they are supposed to be two of the founding members of the Federation. If they are not, I guess the Xindi strangeness is not alone, but just because it's been done before doesn't mean I like it.

Gatac, who asks: Why bother with a new species when you've got dozens we never saw in detail?

(PS: To me, it also stretches credibility somewhat that Xindi are so important that a couple of them manage to be on the Federation flagship. Either it's a fluke or they're quite numerous statistically, which again collides with us never seeing or hearing about them before.)[/colorost_uid0]

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Old 03-05-2004, 02:25 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]Maybe the Xindi went into a long period of isolationist policies. The results of whatever resolution there is to the Let's-nuke-Earth/Let's-not-let-them-nuke-Earth conflict would likely have long-lasting effects on at least Xindi politics if not their everyday life.[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 03-05-2004, 02:47 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]This was a great episode. Continuity-issues aside, I can't wait to see the next episode.

So the Klingons join the Federation, huh? Have we ever heard of this before? I know of at least 1.5 Klingons who have joined starfleet (Worf + B'Elana.) 2.5 if you count the one in Riker's future-ilusion. But it didn't appear they'd join the federation anytime soon.[/colorost_uid0]

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Old 03-05-2004, 03:15 PM
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[quoteost_uid0="Michiel"][color=#000000ost_uid0]So the Klingons join the Federation, huh? Have we ever heard of this before? I know of at least 1.5 Klingons who have joined starfleet (Worf + B'Elana.) 2.5 if you count the one in Riker's future-ilusion. But it didn't appear they'd join the federation anytime soon.[/colorost_uid0][/quoteost_uid0]
[color=#000000ost_uid0]My impression with the Klingons was they joined up once the sphere-builders started attacking. One of those "common defense" sort of things.[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 03-05-2004, 08:42 PM
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[quoteost_uid0="Derek"][color=#000000ost_uid0]But none of the main characters died and the ship has yet to actually be destroyed.[/colorost_uid0][/quoteost_uid0]
[color=#000000ost_uid0]Actualy, didn't Trip get it in the face while evacuating Engineering? If they don't reset button, and I don't think they will either, he's definatly injured as far as I can tell.

And just because we haven't seen Xindi on any other series before, doesn't mean that they weren't always there and they just never showed it to us. Stop nitpicking about silly continueity things like that and just enjoy the story. Xenobiology is my thing and I personaly don't mind learning about new exciting species we've never seen before. :bigsmile:[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 03-05-2004, 09:22 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]I enjoyed the episode and was on the edge of my seat at the very end. I wish we didnt have to wait till the end of April to see the next episode.[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 03-05-2004, 09:32 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]I think any episode where some minor continuity problems are my most serious gripe can call itself lucky. I'm just a critical guy.

Besides, I did enjoy the episode very much. Doesn't mean things like that don't irk me.

Gatac[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 03-05-2004, 09:37 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]Damn, six weeks. I just read that too.

BTW: I noticed that ': (' has two smilies assigned to it. When you use it, the 'crying' one will be displayed. You can't use the 'sad' one.[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 03-05-2004, 11:38 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]You know, UPN ain't too swift when it comes to this show. They're trying to get more viewers so you don't show repeats for the next 6 weeks! Especialy not reruns that did bad for ratings. ::facepalms:: The people that do watch the show regularly are going to turn it off, and some will forget to turn it back on.[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 03-05-2004, 11:46 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]That seems to be the only good thing about living in a country that barely has any shows of its own: Once they broadcast a show, they keep broadcasting every week (or every week-day) without reruns in between. :eyeroll:[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 03-05-2004, 11:54 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]What does the rerun schedule look like, anyway? I've missed the last three weeks, and I'm kinda hoping I'll get to see these eps before they resume with the new ones.

(Just tried looking at PsiPhi, but their ENT section seems to be down at the moment.)[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 03-08-2004, 03:59 AM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]They're starting with "North Star" and I assume they're going in order for the next six weeks. So it should be "North Star," "Similitude," "Carpenter Street," "Chosen Realm," and "Stratagem."

As for the Xindi on Ent-J, I see no serious problem. In fact, it makes sense. Many first species representatives (i.e. Spock, Worf) end up on the flagship.

The Klingons joining the Federation is a great way of showing reconciliation with the former enemy. And it seems a natural progression of the Federation's relationship with the Empire. I'm sure the transition was difficult, but probably not caused solely by the sphere-builders' attack.

And here's another thought on the reset button: the next ep is called, "Damage," right? Assuming that refers to the Ent, it would follow that it survives in order to be "Damaged," rather than "Kaput." (That could be a good ep title.)

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Old 03-08-2004, 01:02 PM
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[quoteost_uid0="Guest"][color=#000000ost_uid0]Many first species representatives (i.e. Spock, Worf) end up on the flagship.[/colorost_uid0][/quoteost_uid0]
[color=#000000ost_uid0]Was the original NCC-1701 a flagship? That was never my impression.

[quoteost_uid0]And here's another thought on the reset button: the next ep is called, "Damage," right? Assuming that refers to the Ent, it would follow that it survives in order to be "Damaged," rather than "Kaput." (That could be a good ep title.)[/quoteost_uid0]
"Damage"? Isn't that the one where the crazy Slayer wakes up and wreaks havoc on the Xindi while Tom Paris visits from the future while the crew tries to capture her? I think it ends with Paris saying that none of the 24th century Trek's trust ENT or something.

Maybe I'm confusing things...[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 03-08-2004, 01:37 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]Oh, it was definitely the flagship. I dunno if they ever stated it in any of the episodes, because I can't remember any examples of such at the moment, but...[/colorost_uid0]
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