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Old 09-11-2003, 01:03 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0][bost_uid0]This thread has spoilers. Go figure.[/bost_uid0]

So I watched it last night and thought it wasn't bad. I kept getting Star Wars vibes all the way through the episode. The strange planet, crawling through the sewer, the plasma tube with the seemingly bottomless hole, the debris of Alderaan the Xindi homeworld, the council of various strange-looking alien races.

But that wasn't bad. I'm not really sure what my thoughts on this episode are. It leaves a lot of things unanswered and asks more questions and introduces more storylines. I think the worth of the episode will come in the followup episodes. I guess that's the interesting thing about a lot of arcs, the conclusion affects the perception of everything leading up to it.

So what did anyone else think of it?

(By the way, did anyone watch Jake 2.0? I did and thought it wasn't bad either, though it too depends on later episodes to help determine its worth.)[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 09-11-2003, 01:55 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]To paraphrase MEG, what "The Xindi" did well it did very well, and what it did badly is what Enterprise has been doing badly all along.

Under the former I'd file aliens (it's about time we saw some aliens with more than a bump on the nose), everything in the mine from characters to set, the addition of the military personnel (although, as MEG pointed out, their rescue of Archer was similar to an [iost_uid0]Elite Force[/iost_uid0] style video game and I hope that doesn't become a regular thing), Trip still dealing with his sister's death, the Jedi Council, and what happened to the Xindi homeworld.

Under the latter... first and foremost, the T'Pol/Trip stuff. That could have been some great character development for both of them. Instead, UPN has to turn it into "Hey, look! T'Pol took off her top! Wheee!" I might have still noticed the character interaction if I hadn't been cursing UPN during the entire scene. I also would have liked to see Phlox try to reach out to Trip instead of just treating him. Trip probably would have rebuffed him and forced Phlox to resort to the Vulcan thing anyways, but I think we should have at least seen Phlox try. Also under the "did badly" category, I'd put Mayweather, who still has nothing to do or say, and Archer being a prat. (If I were Vulcan, I'd find his guts unworthy of serious consideration too; could he [iost_uid0]be[/iost_uid0] any more illogical?)

One thing that bugged me when I read MEG's review was that she was railing on Enterprise for revealing the Xindi so soon... my question is, did we actually find out for sure that anyone on the Jedi Council [iost_uid0]was[/iost_uid0] Xindi? Firstly, there were more than five different species, meaning it's not [iost_uid0]just[/iost_uid0] the Xindi. Secondly, I don't recall if any of them resembled the Xindi Archer and Trip met. And thirdly, the destruction of the Xindi homeworld 120 years before the events of the episode suggests to me that the Xindi were never involved and the EFG lied to Archer. Thoughts?

I suspect "The Xindi" will be representative of the rest of the Enterprise season: doing some things well but not really doing anything about the mistakes they've been making all along. What the writers need is a good slap upside the head to shake them up.[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 09-11-2003, 08:20 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]I liked it. It fell short of being outstanding; a few seams were showing in places and there were bits that could have been handled better, but not bad overall -- a pretty entertaining hour of television. B+/7.5, or thereabouts.

One thing I liked a lot was Stephen McHattie's performance as the mine foreman. After being somewhat disappointed by how little they used him in his last Trek appearance (as Vreenak in DS9's [iost_uid0]In the Pale Moonlight,[/iost_uid0]) it was great to see him get a bit more room to stretch out here. Also liked a lot of what they did with camera angles and generally getting the atmosphere of the mines on screen.

I did think, though, that Trip's characterization was sort of uneven. Neither the conversation in Archer's cabin nor his borderline-postal confrontation with the Xindi-humanoid really felt right to me. Archer himself still needs some work, as well -- he continues to be more a collection of postures and reactions than a whole, integrated person.

The Trip/T'Pol business? That's one of the things that could definitely have been handled better. Then again, it could have been a lot worse, too. There were a few very good bits in there, but overall, it seemed sort of clunky and awkward.

Couple of spot reactions:

The MACO attack/rescue -- I don't know much of anything about [iost_uid0]Elite Force[/iost_uid0], but at the beginning, where they're rappelling down from above, I was getting a flashback to a imilar scene in [iost_uid0]You Only Live Twice.[i/]

Evil Future Guy lying? -- well, now [i]that[/iost_uid0] would come as a real surprise, wouldn't it?

Maybe more later, after I've had a chance to wake up and read MEG's review, and stuff.


Derek: I didn't watch [iost_uid0]Jake 2.0[/iost_uid0], but I've been following Tim Goodman's advance reviews and reactions. The impression I'm getting is that it's not bad, but stops far short of what it [iost_uid0]could[/iost_uid0] be. I'm sort of waiting to see what happens there.[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 09-12-2003, 12:23 AM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0][quoteost_uid0="Kira"]...the T'Pol/Trip stuff. That could have been some great character development for both of them. Instead, UPN has to turn it into "Hey, look! T'Pol took off her top! Wheee!"[/quoteost_uid0]
[bost_uid0]WHA?![/bost_uid0] You're kidding? T'Pol took her top off in the episode? I didn't even notice that. [bost_uid0]*cleans glasses and puts them back on face*[/bost_uid0] Ohhhhhh! Now I see what you're ranting about.

But seriously, that wasn't even my favorite part of the episode. Although I'll admit that it was very cool to see all the new changes to T'pol (her different hairstyle and more colorful costume are a definte plus in my book) I really liked the "Space Marines" that are now featured on board the NX-01. There have been too many boring [bost_uid0]ZAP! BLAM P-KOW![/bost_uid0] phaser fights on ST in the past, but the one they had during "The Xindi" was very cool to watch, esp. the hand-2-hand elements that were featured in addition to all the shooting.

The next thing they need to do is have a giant space battle with Mayweather at the Helm showing off his elite pilot skills. And right after that, Hoshi will do a strip tease while dancing the [bost_uid0]macarena.[/bost_uid0][/colorost_uid0]
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Old 09-12-2003, 02:06 AM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]I like what they're doing with Trip. Of course his character could be a little more consistant. And how Phlox acts as a doctor doesn't make me want to go to him, that's for sure. You don't trick your patients into a sexual-like encounter. But maybe i'm only reacting like that cause i've had dental hygiene overload the past week.

Anyway, very star wars like. But on first viewing of the episode without thinking, I really liked it. Now if I was to nit pick there were a bunch of things that were meh and I wouldn't want to see them again. The tension scenes with Archer just don't work. I can't belive his acting and it seems way too forced. I'm sure there's other stuff but I don't like to nit pick. I'm watching to enjoy a story, and for now I think this one is looking pretty good. [/colorost_uid0]
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Old 09-15-2003, 01:44 AM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]Hey! Call me crazy (and also ignorant cuz I missed a lot of Season Two) but did they leave [bost_uid0]Porthos[/bost_uid0] behind on Earth? I didn't see that puppy at all during this EP.
[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 09-15-2003, 09:09 AM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]I'm sure he's still there, but he's not on screen every episode.

EDIT: You're cra... No, that's too easy.[/colorost_uid0]

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Old 09-15-2003, 04:03 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]It never occurred to me that the Jedi council wasn’t the Xindi, but it’s a good possibility. And it also explains one of my biggest gripes about the episode, how five species could are more closely related than humans and chimps look that completely different. It also raises some good questions such who are they? and will the bug guy squash enterprise like a well.... bug.

I watched the ep twice now. On Wednesday and Sunday and on Sunday I got distracted just before the whole trip/t’pol seine and missed it completely, I can tell you this, the ep was a lot better without it.[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 09-15-2003, 05:24 PM
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[quoteost_uid0="Katy Jane"][color=#000000ost_uid0]And it also explains one of my biggest gripes about the episode, how five species could are more closely related than humans and chimps look that completely different.[/colorost_uid0][/quoteost_uid0]
[color=#000000ost_uid0]Well, there are many routes that evolution can take, and all these species could be different routes. We're mammals, but the dinosaurs could have become inteligent and we'd have two species if they hadn't of died out. And then you have insects that can become inteligent, Plants, Marine mammals/fish. So there are plenty of paths that could have happend simutaniously on the Xindi homeworld, instead of just one branch spliting off multiple times.
Everyone understand that?[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 09-16-2003, 08:24 AM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]Completely, however, there are mammals, reptiles, fish, and I don't know what else. So they're all intelligent, big deal. It doesn't mean they're genetically so much the same. I mean, they're still mammals, reptiles, fish... I'd say intelligent or not, they'd still have more in common if they were all, say, mammals. Like chimps and humans.
I'm not saying it's not possible though, I'm not a biologist. I just think it's weird.[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 09-16-2003, 07:41 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]I dunno, I thought Phlox said that they were all really similar yet one just had scales and the other didn't. ::shrugs::[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 09-16-2003, 09:03 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0][quoteost_uid0="Katy Jane"]It never occurred to me that the Jedi council wasn’t the Xindi, but it’s a good possibility.[/quoteost_uid0]
It's also a very cool possibility. However, the credits for "The Xindi" on StarTrek.com list 'Xindi humanoid' and 'Xindi reptilian' and 'Xindi sloth' so that's pretty much conclusive evidence that the council is in fact the Xindi. In which case, that entire sequence was dumb and pointless and it appears my defense of the episode was premature.

[quoteost_uid0]And it also explains one of my biggest gripes about the episode, how five species could are more closely related than humans and chimps look that completely different.[/quoteost_uid0]
Nobody says they're more closely related than chimps and us. (Considering we share over 99% of our DNA with chimps, that would be virtually impossible anyways.) If chimps were intelligent, we might say there are two species of Terrans. Calling them five species of Xindi is just Enterprise's way of throwing science at us and hoping we don't realize that all they mean is that there are five intelligent species that evolved from the same planet. [/colorost_uid0]
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Old 09-16-2003, 09:20 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0][quoteost_uid0]Nobody says they're more closely related than chimps and us.[/quoteost_uid0]

Actually, Phlox said that.[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 09-16-2003, 11:14 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]He did? Must've zoned out due to boredom.

In that case, the answer is clear: Phlox must die for violating scientific common sense.[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 09-16-2003, 11:48 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0][quoteost_uid0]In that case, the answer is clear: Phlox must die for violating scientific common sense.[/quoteost_uid0]

His death sentence was issued early in Season One when he babbled on about stray neutrons turning pollen into nerve gas, or something.

The fact that he's a homeopathic quack doesn't help matters.[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 09-17-2003, 11:51 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]Argh. I must be slipping.

(Since I already chastised Dennis Bailey for the very same pun, over at TBBS some weeks ago) regarding this read's subtitle:

[iost_uid0]Bad[/iost_uid0] Derek, [i]bad! :swear:


[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 09-18-2003, 01:28 AM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0][quoteost_uid0]regarding this read's subtitle:[/quoteost_uid0]

o/~ Who's sneaking up from out of the Expanse
Shooting at everybody they see? o/~[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 09-18-2003, 01:47 AM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]Oh, don't [iost_uid0]you[/iost_uid0] start. =P[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 09-18-2003, 04:44 AM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0][quoteost_uid0]Oh, don't you start.[/quoteost_uid0]

*snickers evilly*

My mum once said "How can I complain about your music when it's the same stuff I listened to?"

Right now the Vancouver Oldies station is playing...uhhh...it's some instrumental I haven't learned the name of.

But a moment ago it was playing Ricky Nelson's "Hello Mary Lou"[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 09-18-2003, 05:16 AM
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[quoteost_uid0="Sa'ar Chasm"][color=#000000ost_uid0]Right now the Vancouver Oldies station is playing...uhhh...it's some instrumental I haven't learned the name of.[/colorost_uid0][/quoteost_uid0]
[color=#000000ost_uid0]Probably either "Sukiyaki" or "Classical Gas".[/colorost_uid0]
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