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Old 04-10-2003, 12:28 AM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]Even though this hasn't aired for most of you yet, I got it last night and felt like starting a thread. So, read the following at your own risk. (Also post spoilers at your own risk, as either Zeke or I may kill you.)

As for my thoughts on the episode, I thought it was good but not overly spectacular. Although we didn't get to see much of the rest of the crew this week, Archer was intelligent enough that it didn't bother me. He (or the writers, as it were) is definitely improving in the area of blatant stupidity and/or being naive. The episode provided an interesting look at the Klingon justice system and their society in general, though, as it railroaded Archer. I just about rolled off the couch when he was found guilty of being a nuisance. My favorite part, though, was when the woman turned out to be a shapesh--

Oh, wait... I'm thinking of [iost_uid0]Star Trek VI[/iost_uid0]. I wonder how I made that mistake?

Anyways, overall not a bad outing and I look forward to seeing more of the Klingons.[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 04-10-2003, 02:14 AM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]I was impressed. The episode seemed very tight. There wasn't much dead time and the pacing was good. I felt like I had watched more than just 40 minutes.

I loved the [iost_uid0]Star Trek VI[/iost_uid0] references. I thought they were great. It was great seeing the Klingon judgment room and the mines at Rura Penthe. I liked the way the judge said "The penalty of death is commuted." in a manner not unlike the movie. There were a lot of good homages, and yet the episode wasn't a ripoff of the movie.

Another thing that really, [iost_uid0]really[/iost_uid0] impressed me was the discussion of Klingon culture and its parallels of today. There is a definite difference between TOS Klingons and TNG/DS9/VOY Klingons. TOS were more devious and not as blatantly war-like as their later counterparts. It was nice seeing ENT heralding that change as it came down the line. But I was also impressed with the way the writers were able to make a few comments about today's society while they made comments about Klingon society. This episode was Star Trek.

I don't know where I'd rank this episode, but it's high. Not as good as Dead Stop (my current favorite), but better than The Andorian Incident.[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 04-10-2003, 07:25 AM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]To be honest,I didn't really care for it. I saw Rura Penthe coming a mile away, I saw the cliche of the lawyer (though the actor was really good) who learns to care, I saw Duras lying in the flashbacks, and it just didn't do all that much for me. Plus, the only reason there was a plot was that Klingons were stubborn for no reason and they never explained how Archer was captured or...maybe I need some sleep.

On a semi-realted note, are humans supposed to be perfect by this point?[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 04-10-2003, 08:31 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]I quite liked this one.

The pacing was nicely done, and I wasn't bothered nearly as much by the [iost_uid0]Star Trek VI[/iost_uid0] parallels as some people seem to have been (possibly because I've seen that movie neither often nor recently.)

Some observations:

- J.G. Hertzler was a pleasure to watch (and hear), as always. Especially liked the Kolos/Archer exchanges in the mines:

Kolos: You are a [iost_uid0]fool![/iost_uid0]
Archer: You're welcome.

Kolos: Are all humans like this?
Archer: What, fair?
Kolos: [iost_uid0]Stupid![/iost_uid0]


I thought the final scene with Kolos and the long pullaway to him going back to work was extremely effective (sniff!)

- Some of the exchanges between Kolos and the prosecuting Advocate were very good, and I thought the Magistrate very impressive.

- Did anyone notice not only a physical resemblance between this Duras and the TNG one, but also some mannerisms, especially in speech rhythms? Nice touch.

Yes, there were little things like the absence of explanation of how Archer came to be in custody and the rushing through the rescue at the end, but there's only so much time, and to have made a two-parter of it would probably have involved enough padding to blunt the impact of what we did get. I can live with this one as it is, and think it's one of the best, so far.[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 04-10-2003, 08:43 PM
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[quoteost_uid0="Guest"][color=#000000ost_uid0]The pacing was nicely done, and I wasn't bothered nearly as much by the [iost_uid0]Star Trek VI[/iost_uid0] parallels as some people seem to have been (possibly because I've seen that movie neither often nor recently.)[/colorost_uid0][/quoteost_uid0]
[color=#000000ost_uid0]Actually, I wasn't bothered by any similarities to ST6 and I've seen it so many times I can quote parts of it verbatim (check my fivers and you may notice a number of ST6 lines in them).

As for the beginning and ending, I'm okay with it. It would've been nice to have a line somewhere about how they apprehended Archer, but I'm alright without it. I do wish the escape at the end would've been a little more covert. Maybe taking a side exit or at least crouching down and stealthfully leaving the mines, but whatever.

I think a lot of people who like this ep like it for its potential. This is the sort of episode that really needs follow-up. If the next time we see the Klingons, we're back at square one, that will make this episode seem empty. However, if the next time we see Klingons, we find them ticked off then this episode will certainly be important. I can only hope.[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 04-10-2003, 08:52 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0][quoteost_uid0="Derek"]However, if the next time we see Klingons, we find them ticked off[/quoteost_uid0]
A Klingon on [iost_uid0]Enterprise[/iost_uid0] not being ticked off? That's like... like... a Vulcan on [iost_uid0]Enterprise[/iost_uid0] not being vindictive and petty. I think it's a good bet you won't be disappointed. [/colorost_uid0]
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Old 04-10-2003, 10:42 PM
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[quoteost_uid0="Derek"][color=#000000ost_uid0](check my fivers and you may notice a number of ST6 lines in them).[/colorost_uid0][/quoteost_uid0]
[color=#000000ost_uid0]Believe I have noticed that a time or two.
[quoteost_uid0]
I think a lot of people who like this ep like it for its potential. This is the sort of episode that really needs follow-up. If the next time we see the Klingons, we're back at square one, that will make this episode seem empty. However, if the next time we see Klingons, we find them ticked off then this episode will certainly be important. I can only hope.[/quoteost_uid0]It looks reasonably certain we'll be seeing at least one pissed-off Klingon from this ep in the near future. Additionally, Kolos' statements during the trial make it clear that [iost_uid0]someone[/iost_uid0] has been taking notes about Archer's blundering about in Klingon matters. Lastly, regarding follow-up, I, for one, am going to be [iost_uid0]extremely[/iost_uid0] disappointed if we don't see Kolos again (and not just because I'm a big fan of Hertzler.)[/colorost_uid0]
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Old 04-10-2003, 11:32 PM
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[color=#000000ost_uid0]I really liked this episode, because for once on this series we saw some real [iost_uid0]depth[/iost_uid0] to the Klingons. Broken Bow, Unexpected, Sleeping Dogs, and especially...er... that forgettable one, just showed us the same damn thing we've seen sixty-bagoogle times on TNG and DS9. This was especially troubling to me (and I'm sure I'm not alone here) because looking between the original series and the TNG/DS9/Voy era, there is a vast difference in the portrayal of Klingons. Now showing the later ones on Enterprise just didn't sit right.

Now knowing how non-static Klingon culture really is, it's a lot easier to imagine these guys moving toward the cunning Klingons we saw in TOS (maybe due in part to a relaxation of the honor code as presented to an extent in this episode?). In fact, without too much imagination involved, it's pretty easy to see a steady cycle of Klingon honor and cunning. By the time of TNG, the Klingons have reverted to their honorable ways, though they lost the blindness of it they have now on Enterprise (whether that's been intentional or simply poor writing).

Anywho, the episode presented many new ideas which is always a plus. I expected a retread of Star Trek 6 (which I too remember well, for obvious reasons). I got a pretty well balanced episode. Hearing spoilers (don't worry, I won't say 'em here) for the end of the season has really piqued my interest. I see hope for this show where before I saw Star Trek: The La([iost_uid0]st[/iost_uid0] or [iost_uid0]me[/iost_uid0]) Generation.

Bla, rant over.[/colorost_uid0]
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