A Question I Have To Ask

[Lostoyannaya]

***Post contains spoilers for the 10th Doctor episode "The Impossible Planet"***

Ready? Then I'll begin.

After watching tonight's episode, this was a question I was asking everyone around me, even those people who didn't know what I was talking about:

How many times, and across all of his regenerations, has the Doctor lost the TARDIS?

I don't know all that much about the classic Who's - something I'm trying to rectify - but it seems to me that the poor girl is getting neglected of late. I mean, first she was actually made into a phonebox when the Ninth Doctor stupidly took Rose back to witness her father's death and thus changed time, then under the Tenth Doctor she's died and gotten...well, lost or destroyed, we don't know yet.

So...anyway. Anyone got an answer for my curious question?

~~Lostoyannaya

[Burt]

Did you want to know exactly how many times? Or just a rough guess type thing? Cos it's been a fair few!
Like with the First Doctor, in the 'Dalek Invasion of Earth', the TARDIS was buried under a load of rumble, and the doctor couldn't get to it. This type of thing happens a lot, getting cut off from it like that. Cos the TARDIS is invincible (from the outside) and can take you anywhere, it's a kinda of 'safe haven' that needs to be taken away in most stories. Cue many rockslides, crumbling floors and whatnot.
Also in the first Doctor, it was taken away by the ‘Toymaker’ a super powerful guy, who liked toys….
The second Doctor lost it a few times too. In the Space Pirates, he was on a space beacon that blew up, leaving him on one bit and the TARDIS on another.
The Third Doctor (Pertwee) was put on Earth for most of his time, by the Time lords, as exile. (Although he gets away a few times). The TARDIS is with him, but bits of it won’t work, and the timelords take the knowledge of how to fix it, from his mind. In the Curse of Peladon, the TARDIS falls off a cliff. But it’s found later.
The Fourth Doctor is with out the TARDIS for a bit. From his second episode, ‘the ark in space’ till the ‘Revenge of the Cybermen’, he travels without one, as does Sarah and ‘Harry’. Oh and he loses it in 'The Android Invasion', (It goes back to Earth without him). He and Sarah need to use a rocket to get back to Earth.
That’s a few of the times with those first 4 Doctors! He really must keep more of an eye on the old girl!

[PointyHairedJedi]

Yeah, there have been a few occasions like this. The only one not mentioned that I can think of right at this moment is in "The Aztecs" where the TARDIS gets left inside a tomb that the Doctor then can't get back into (though they manage it eventually, of course).

[Scooter]

Here's what I can think of (some already mentioned):

TARDIS MISSING
1. The Celestial Toymaker - Taken away by Toymaker
2. Space Pirates - Separated by explosion
4. Genesis of the Daleks - Time Lords separate Doctor from his TARDIS
4. Android Invasion - TARDIS continues to Earth
4. Robots of Death - Taken out of mining hopper by robots
5. Mawdryn Undread - TARDIS goes to 1977, Doctor traveling separately stays in 1983
5. Enlightenment - Eternals hide it in the Doctor's mind (!)
9. Father's Day - Police Box shell is empty

TARDIS BROKEN UP
2. The Mind Robber - Broken up in Fiction Universe
5. Frontios - Broken up by Tractators

TARDIS NONFUNCTIONAL
1. The Daleks - Fluid link burned out (this happens again later)
3. (Much of the Doctor's exile through Three Doctors, but with exceptions like Colony in Space and Time Monster)
6. Vengeance on Varos - Out of Zyton-7 (enough reserve power to get to Varos)
10. Rise of the Cybermen - Damaged

TARDIS PRESENT BUT INACCESSIBLE
(Many, but notably)
1. Marco Polo - The Doctor loses the TARDIS to the great Khan in a backgammon wager!
1. The Aztecs - locked in a tomb
1. Dalek Invasion of Earth - buried under rubble
4. Destiny of the Daleks - buried under rubble
4. Full Circle - TARDIS carried off by marshmen
5. Four to Doomsday - Tegan accidentally moves the TARDIS into space
5. Time-Flight - TARDIS stolen by the Master


I'm sure I'm missing some interesting ones. There are more occasions where the Doctor is separated from the TARDIS during the course of the story, but it's not really important (e.g., Deadly Assassin, while he's in the Matrix).

[Burt]

This seems the best place to post this:


/////\\\\\\\\Spoiler Warnings 'The Impossible Planet'//////\\\\\\\\

I missed it the other day, and only just managed to.....*cough*... get hold of the episode.
I think this was one of the best so far! The effects are first class, and the effort that has gone into making the set is just amazing! Way to go BBC! Nice to see the Licence Fee doing something good!
And the opening was perfect! Nice and shocking, with mystery and tiny bit of humour! Bravo!
This was the first time I watched the Opening credits up close too, and I really do like the 'Tunnel' and the way the TARDIS shoots past. Only thing I would like more, was if they showed the Doctor's face, it would have kept things in order, as most other Doctor's faces have be shown at their starts. But I do like the 'Shriek' bit that is at the start of the Music ala' Tom Bakers theme. Adds some of the old Doctor Who magic for me, and was something I thought would have been scraped.
But even though I loved some of the past 'new' Doctor episodes (The K-9 and Cybermen ones) I think this was fantastic.
Also, if you've seen many other Doctor episodes, I feel this reminds me of one of Tom Bakers episodes...'The Robots of Death'. That was set on a station that was mining, had another type of race onboard too (They were robots though). They also lost the TARDIS, and members of the crew died as well.
I'm thinking (well hoping) that the 'Big Bad' of these episodes might be an old baddie? The Voice of the Devil (?) in this episode is the same as the guy who placed 'Sutek the Destroyer' in The Pyramids of Mars. That would be great. Or, maybe Omega? He’s always popping up from Black holes....?

[PointyHairedJedi]

Originally Posted by Scooter

4. Full Circle - TARDIS carried off by marshmen

And then it got rolled down a hill, as I remember it.

(The burning question is, did it gather any moss on the way down?)

Burt, I don't think this is a baddie we've seen before somehow, though it might concieviably be the Fendahl just on the timing of it alone (though it's still not very likely).

[Burt]

Intresting idea it being the Fendahl, why you think of that? What did you mean 'the timing of it'?
But I have to agree with you, I don't think it will be an old baddie either. A large amount of the fans now are all new (I.e. not see Doctor Who before) So putting in old stuff will go right over their heads. Except the Daleks and Cybermen - Everyone knows them!

[PointyHairedJedi]

I just seem to remember the Fendahl as being really, really old, but probably still not nearly old enough to be connected to the "Impossible Planet" baddie.

[Scooter]

Originally Posted by Burt

But I have to agree with you, I don't think it will be an old baddie either. A large amount of the fans now are all new (I.e. not see Doctor Who before) So putting in old stuff will go right over their heads. Except the Daleks and Cybermen - Everyone knows them!

So naturally the new series started out by recycling classic series villains last seen in 1971!

Personally I think the Chumblies are involved...

[Lostoyannaya]

Originally Posted by Burt

Intresting idea it being the Fendahl, why you think of that? What did you mean 'the timing of it'?
But I have to agree with you, I don't think it will be an old baddie either. A large amount of the fans now are all new (I.e. not see Doctor Who before) So putting in old stuff will go right over their heads. Except the Daleks and Cybermen - Everyone knows them!

Yet, alas, this is what the internet is for!

It has sadly been stated on several websites that I've seen that most fans are considering the two new Doctors as completely new series, and so reintroducing old character as a risk. Yet, this is the same Doctor Who canon, is it not? Same idea, same TARDIS, different director and producer. And if the new fans don't understand or recognise the old characters, they always have the internet and various reference guides. (Not to mention the hoarde of science fiction magazines producing reems of articles on Doctor Who now).

In my opinion I hope they bring back several old characters - as Burt knows I want to get into the old series, and perhaps the best way they can get new fans to look back is to introduce the old characters. (Sarah Jane Smith, for example). I myself am very curious about this "Master" guy, and have read several differing accounts as to whether or not he actually died.

~~Lostoyannaya

[PointyHairedJedi]

Oh, he did once, sorta, but then he came back somehow (not like that Sheridan dweeb did though).

I always find discussions about canon and Doctor Who to be particularly difficult - one of the truly wonderful things for me about the show is that it has always been flexible and subject to change, just because of the very nature of the show's premise - time travel, as Oscar Wilde might have said were he from Gallifrey, covers a multitude of sins. There are a core set of irrefutable facts of course, but in practical terms you can believe that everything - series, books, audios, comics, whatever - is 'canon', or you can pick any combination of those things as you see fit, simply because time travel in the Whoniverse is such a chaotic and pleasingly ill-defined thing. Like me, you can even choose to ignore the whole thing and just simply enjoy one of the richest characters in SF doing his bit to make the Universe a slightly less scary place.

From The Dying Days

'Who are you?' Xznaal hissed. 'Sshow yoursself. Identify yoursself.'

'I am the man that gives monsters nightmares.'

I frowned. It was a loudspeaker, a public address system of some kind. The second time the voice had spoken it had been at a normal volume.

'The Daleks call me the Bringer of Darkness.'

I couldn't begin to work out where the voice was coming from. It was getting louder, reaching a crescendo.

'I am the Eighth Man Bound.'

Something was glittering, coalescing in the air over Tower Bridge. A face.

'I am the Champion of Life and Time.'

A long, angular face with a jutting chin and aristocratic nose, framed by a mane of brown hair.

'I'm the guy with two hearts.'

Thousand-year-old eyes and a child-like expression gazed down at us, smiling angelically.

'I make history better.'

There was a pause that contained worlds and histories immeasurable to man. Then four words, each one louder than the last, each one drowning out the noise of the wind and the battle.

'I... '

My eyes were watering.

'Am... '

The Brigadier lowered his binoculars, his eyes wide.

'The Doctor!'

And it was.

[Chancellor Valium]

@Burt: I was reminded of "Robots" by TIP too. And 'Pyramids' of course...

[Burt]

Would have been great if it had been Suket! But I liked it anyway!
Plus pointy, you're so right about Doctor whos canon. I'm not a toatl nazi when it comes to canon, but it is nice for things to make sense. But with DW it's different. Cos there's time travel going on, and different universes, and dimentions and a whole host of things, everything is flexible. Like the Earth's in DW there have been so many 'Earth Empires', Federations, Alliences, that if you tried to make a timeline I'm sure your head would explode! But it works for DW!

[PointyHairedJedi]

Originally Posted by Burt

Plus pointy, you're so right

Yes, I am. Always.