November 23

[Nan]

Stylistic precursors. It was the 70s and mullet hair was fairly common, there's always an evil Emperor, heroes were typically Aryans, clouds cities are fairly generic, etc. The actual plot and characters were taken from sources.

The opening text is a bit of a rip, but would still be Star Wars without it. Enh.

[Chancellor Valium]

s'pose so.....hey! stop being right!

[Nan]

I can't help it!

I'm a college student now, but I'm not getting any more lascivious or stupid. Wait, scratch that first one.

Mmmm... Jude Law....

....Aaaand I'm back.

[PointyHairedJedi]

Originally Posted by Chancellor Valium

s'pose so.....hey! stop being right!

That's like asking dragons to stop exploding in the woods, or asking the High Priest to stop being an Omnian.

Also.... Jude Law?

...Nah.

[Nan]

Stop mentionign Jude Law, damn it. I was spacing out in History not half an hour ago on related thoughts. X(

Mmmm.... Jude Law....

....Annd back.

[PointyHairedJedi]

Indeed?

*Jots something down on a notepad*

Hmm, interesting...

[Anonymous]

Originally Posted by Kira

I never got the sense as I always did from Voyager that they had suffered casualties and it was weighing on the crew

On the contrary I liked how enterprise didn't simply kill red shirts arbitrarally. I find that it becomes meaningless if they do it too much. Any shuttle crash or away mission you can't possibly be surprised. Its to be expected. I think it would be better it they let you get to know characters a bit before they die so their deaths have some meaning. No one ever seems to remember their dead they dissapear and thats the end. I sorta liked Trips letter to the crew members family, it makes some meaning for the death besides making the situation seem more serious.
On a side note I'm not all that thrilled with Enterpise myself. Its not very star trek like at all. The Xindi war was completely stupid unless it gets temporally erased Its a huge plot whole that such a major conflict never gets recognized by anyone in the previous series. I definitely perfered seasons one and two, more TCW stuff should have been developed in season three instead of some stupid random war. I'm really hopeing that in the end the Krenum will pay a major part in the war. Why would such a temporally advanced race be left out. I missed the end of this seasons opening but I assume the TCW isn't over yet.
Back on track the I think Miss Blalock should have made some better points then those. For one the cheap sex. The reationship between her and Trip is stupid. It developes way to fast and way too well stupidly. Come on "I wanted to explore human sexuality" Sex is totally Taboo for Vulcan conversation let alone exploration. That is worth complaint. They should have developed the relationship more naturally if at all. The weding thing is a relatively good develpement but not necessary.
Well whatever they may be able to clean it all up.

[evay]

Originally Posted by admiral sab

Tuvok didn't have to become more human, but he did have a few episodes where he lost control of his emotions or where his Vulcan guard was down. The scene where Tuvok says goodbye to Neelix. How very uncharacteristic of Tuvok to move his foot as a gesture of friendship for Neelix. We the viewers knew that it was Tuvok's way of dancing. Neelix said he would get Tuvok to dance before they made it home (or whatever) and Tuvok gave Neelix that as a goodbye gift. Now was it necessary for Tuvok to do this? No. But it was a very sweet moment and an unguarded moment for Tuvok. The episode Gravity is another sentiment to moments where Tuvok had a very Un-Vulcan like moment. Is this bad writing on the parts of the writers or B & B? I don't think so.

There is a difference between Doing As The Romans Do on occasion and changing one's essential nature to abandon one's culture and species. On Trek, each species/culture tends to have one or two markers to identify them so that Roddenberry could use them as foils for humanity, and to represent various aspects of our nature so he could write stories about that struggle. Obviously in reality individuals don't act like clones or have cookie-cutter personalities, but within the Trekiverse, Klingons are generally loud and obnoxious and honor-obsessed, Vulcans are cool and logical and rational, Orions are sneaky and plotting, etc.

Tuvok planned ahead and deliberately, openly chose to give Neelix the gift of a moment's dance. In "Gravity," if you're referring to his rebellious past, teenagers are of course given more slack than adults. I not sure what else in that show you'd consider to be un-Vulcan.

Now, at the end of "Breaking the Ice," we see that T'Pol has deliberately (and privately) chosen to try a piece of pecan pie, as a symbol of being willing to choose her own path. No problem. That's an example of bending to another culture's or another individual's wishes for an instance, out of respect or curiosity or whatever. It is not semantically equivalent to, for example, "Riddles," when amnesiac Tuvok was baking cakes and hanging out with Neelix.

Do you see the difference? Tuvok with amnesia making a sundae and Tuvok gravely waggling his foot at Neelix's departure are light-years apart. The point I am making, and Blalock's complaint, is that TPTB on ENT (and I believe it to be mostly B&B) have aimed for a version of T'Pol With Amnesia so they can have her be nekkid and emotional a lot, instead of T'Pol Waggling Her Foot, which would have much more impact. They have consistently worked to change T'Pol's essential, individual nature, to make her more human and less Vulcan. There is no dramatic reason for it. She's not half-human, she's not an android hoping to be a real live boy, she's not a former Borg trying to recapture the culture she lost, she's not a Changeling studying Solids.

Consider: V'Lar learned to shake hands, because it's what many other species do. She was curious and forthright. BUT: Did she show up in skin-tight robes? Did she laugh or cry or yell?

Consider: Sarek had two human wives. BUT: Did he take brain-damaging drugs recreationally, because it felt good?

Consider: Unca Jim's recap of the end of "Riddles":

Originally Posted by Jim Wright

{Tuvok says} "Well, then, why? Wh-why do you want me to go back to the way I was?!"

Because it's much better if it's your choice. Resistance is futile. Radical character alteration is irrelevant.

"Because," Neelix says at last, "this crew needs its tactical officer on the bridge. And I wouldn't be a very good friend if I ignored that, just so you'd be nicer to me."

It is my opinion, and that of many fans, and maybe that of Blalock, that this is what B&B have done. They've ignored the need for a collected, logical Vulcan XO on the bridge just so they can get Blalock's clothes off.


It is simple and researchable fact that in the three seasons where B&B had creative control, especially S3, T'Pol had her clothes off a lot (more often than anyone, Trip a close second), and lost her emotional control as a Vulcan. In the fourth season so far where Manny Coto has had more creative control, T'Pol has stayed clothed and has regained some of that control. You can draw whatever conclusions you want, you can think it interesting or pathetic, but that is fact.

[Wade, The Sane Commodore]

Whoa, whoa, ya all need to calm down here. First and foremost, let's remember we're dealing with a show on television, not interstellar politics.

Secondly, let me say this and p.o. everyone: Enterprise is not Trek. DS9 is not Trek. Do you know what Trek is? Let me tell you. Trek is Capt. Kirk landing on a planet, seducing the native women, beating up goons, having a redshirt get killed, and talking a computer into exploding. For time filler you have Bones and Spock arguing the finer points of humanity and Scotty off drinking somewheres with Chekov talking about how the USSR invented warp drive. Sulu, Rand, Uhura, Chapel hang out in the wardroom until the plot needs their characters or an alien hostage that we can't let get killed. That is Trek, ladies and gentlemen. So what is Enterprise, you ask? Ha! I do have an answer! Enterprise is the "Behind the Scenes" of Trek. You have legit stories on real Trek (TOS, TNG, VOY) but DS9 and ENT want to let you know how it all works. I for one have no idea how warp drive works, furthermore I don't care. It doesn't add anything to the plot. If Geordi says he needs more anti-matter or more kerosene the idea remains the same. And at the end of the episode the giant reset button is pushed and the Enterprise sails off at Ludicrous Speed. Every show an adventure, interchangable with all the others. That model survived 17 seasons of great Trek. Let me ask you: if Enterprise was filmed in real time, would anyone watch it? No. Unless the premise of the episode was "T'Pol gets stuck in decon", it would be boring as all get out. Why am I saying all this? Where am I going? Right here. If Enterprise's Season 4+ plot lines boil down to "How T'Pol got her Vulcan Back", it is finished as a respectable show. Because the evolving character gimick isn't Trek, its behind the scenes drama. And Trek is not drama.

[Chancellor Valium]

Naturally, this argument shows that Doctor Who is superior. You cannot interchange episodes of it (in the old series anyway,) because each episode leads on from the previous (Except season openers).

[Anonymous]

Originally Posted by Wade, The Sane Commodore

Whoa, whoa, ya all need to calm down here. First and foremost, let's remember we're dealing with a show on television, not interstellar politics.

Secondly, let me say this and p.o. everyone: Enterprise is not Trek. DS9 is not Trek. Do you know what Trek is? Let me tell you. Trek is Capt. Kirk landing on a planet, seducing the native women, beating up goons, having a redshirt get killed, and talking a computer into exploding. For time filler you have Bones and Spock arguing the finer points of humanity and Scotty off drinking somewheres with Chekov talking about how the USSR invented warp drive. Sulu, Rand, Uhura, Chapel hang out in the wardroom until the plot needs their characters or an alien hostage that we can't let get killed. That is Trek, ladies and gentlemen. So what is Enterprise, you ask? Ha! I do have an answer! Enterprise is the "Behind the Scenes" of Trek. You have legit stories on real Trek (TOS, TNG, VOY) but DS9 and ENT want to let you know how it all works. I for one have no idea how warp drive works, furthermore I don't care. It doesn't add anything to the plot. If Geordi says he needs more anti-matter or more kerosene the idea remains the same. And at the end of the episode the giant reset button is pushed and the Enterprise sails off at Ludicrous Speed. Every show an adventure, interchangable with all the others. That model survived 17 seasons of great Trek. Let me ask you: if Enterprise was filmed in real time, would anyone watch it? No. Unless the premise of the episode was "T'Pol gets stuck in decon", it would be boring as all get out. Why am I saying all this? Where am I going? Right here. If Enterprise's Season 4+ plot lines boil down to "How T'Pol got her Vulcan Back", it is finished as a respectable show. Because the evolving character gimick isn't Trek, its behind the scenes drama. And Trek is not drama.

Umm a bit confusing. The warp drive thing. Some people enjoy theoretical consepts. You were kinda all over the place here. All I can say is I probably don't agree with you. Probably.

[Anonymous]

Originally Posted by Wade, The Sane Commodore

Whoa, whoa, ya all need to calm down here. First and foremost, let's remember we're dealing with a show on television, not interstellar politics.

What are you talking about this chat hasn't gotten overly intense at all. We're all discussing calmly and respectfully. I haven't read a single over the top measage. No yelling nothing. We are calm. Why don't you tell Bush to start acting stupid or something.

[Celeste]

Off topic but... I'm guessing Zeke has given up on the updating every day thing.

[Opium]

WOAH! DS9 is Trek, but it is Trek-PLUS. It's Trek plus good drama, it's Trek plus CSI or ER or X-Files. It's Trek-PLUS. PLUS it makes it cool.

Enterprise is...Trek: The Prequel. TTP is just that...a forerunner to Trek, but made afterwards. To compare the Ent to DS9 is like comparing the Original Star Wars trilogy with the Ewok shows :wink: Okay, maybe that's a bit harsh. It's like comparing Original Star Wars to the new one, which included Jar Jar Binks and that wierd aging thing were Natalie Portman stays the same as her boyfriend ages about 12 years.

[persianmouse]

Gee, when did playing a flawed, complicated, and compelling character become a bad thing? T'pol is not a traditional Vulcan, they've never played her as a traditional Vulcan, she's...a little nutty. And I really don't see anything wrong with that. Human beings aren't all the same, why should that be true for vulcans. She has some emotional problems (and from way before the whole trellium-d, that was a symptom of her emotional issues, not the cause), and bally-hoo for TPTB for showing that in the future, people still have issues. And yes, she's Vulcan, but there were bound to be Insane, mad, eccentric Vulcans out there. It would make sense for her to be one. A vulcan living on a human ship, forging new ground, being an explorer, a revolutionary, is probably not gonna be someone who never rocks the boat. Now I'm not saying I approve of her drug habit, but that's the thing, you weren't supposed to like it, that story-line was supposed to piss you off, nobody is going 'yay for drugs!' over there. She was inadvertantly addicted to a substance she was initially exposed to through no fault of her own, and once she realized that this was no longer 'social drinking', that she had a problem, she stopped, and she got help, and she hasn't relasped. That is strength of character right there, to not go back, it's not easy.

Oh, and about the whole eating with your hands thing and picking up other human habits, here's a little lesson anyone who's ever taken a Sociology course should know; When a person goes and lives with another group, another culture, they begin to pick up small habits of that culture, even subconsciencely. An American goes to Europe for a few years, they come back smoking their cigarettes like a European, calling an elevator a 'lift' and eating scones. Or you go to Japan, and start taking you shoes off when you walk into a home, and bowing slightly when shaking hands. It's the natural flow of things, to adapt to new surroundings, to become part of the pack. So therefor, T'pol would probably pick up a few habits, like eating with her hands, or saying 'thank you'. She's not rejecting being Vulcan, so she eats with her hands, whoop-piddee-freakin-doo.

Most of this is just because she's Vulcan, and there is a misconception that you can define that into one particular set of rules, and if you deviate from those rules in any way, you cease to be Vulcan. No one has that kind of predjudice when it comes to humans on the show. Define what it is to be a Human being, give me a set of rules and social mores and cultural ideals that all humans have, and if they don't, then they are not human. Can you do that? When Trip does something, does anybody ask "Is that something a Human would do?" No, they ask "Is that something Trip would do?" whenever T'pol does anything the first thing said is "that's not something a Vulcan would do" T'pol is not just a Vulcan, she is a person in her own right with her own flaws and attributes, her own ideas and principles.I think it is good of the writers to write a race on star trek like it is an actual race, with differences, and varients and devience. And yes admittidly, there is some T&A for no purpose other than T&A, but that's everywhere on TV, it's like commericals, and it should not distract you from the overall story.

It's often said that strife and conflict on the set creates something really wonderfull on camera, so i don't care what dumb-ass things Jo wants to say, so long as she stays with the show, and portrays T'pol as well as she does.

-c.

[Xeroc]

Originally Posted by Celeste

Off topic but... I'm guessing Zeke has given up on the updating every day thing.

Apparently so. :? Although he hasn't admitted it yet. :P

[Zeke]

No, I haven't. This has just been a very rough month for daily updates, especially the end. I was hit very hard and very fast by something this week and it's been all I could do since then to get the bare minimum done. I've been left seriously wondering if anything I do is worth it.

But I'll be making a newspost tonight, and I'll try to get back onto a daily schedule from then on. The daily updates aren't dead. I'm just wondering whether it would matter if they were.

[Xeroc]

Originally Posted by Zeke

No, I haven't. This has just been a very rough month for daily updates, especially the end. I was hit very hard and very fast by something this week and it's been all I could do since then to get the bare minimum done. I've been left seriously wondering if anything I do is worth it.

But I'll be making a newspost tonight, and I'll try to get back onto a daily schedule from then on. The daily updates aren't dead. I'm just wondering whether it would matter if they were.

Maybe you should do every-other day posts (unless it's a multiday event, of course) or every three days, if there isn't new stuff right away, and so it's not as much work?

[evay]

Maybe weekly, or twice-weekly? Pick, I dunno, Sundays and Wednesdays or something? I never did understand the compulsion to say something every single day.

Originally Posted by persianmouse

Gee, when did playing a flawed, complicated, and compelling character become a bad thing?

It's bad when the "flaws" are neither deliberate nor in keeping with the established character. And not everyone finds her "compelling."

Originally Posted by persianmouse

T'pol is not a traditional Vulcan, they've never played her as a traditional Vulcan, she's...a little nutty. And I really don't see anything wrong with that. Human beings aren't all the same, why should that be true for vulcans.

I don't have a problem with T'Pol being a different kind of Vulcan -- the kind who would go to a jazz club, the kind who would experiment with a mind meld or take a post on a Terran ship because she was so curious. I DO have a problem with the NP arc, because there was no sensible, plot-driven in-character reason for it. It was all about skin. I DO have a problem with an intelligent, logical scientist allowing herself to become addicted to a drug which 'made me feeeel good.' Exposing herself to trellium was not like picking up drinking or smoking. She had to work at finding a way to expose herself to it without killing herself. And even at that, the arc could have been written better, and worked in over the year, but it was jammed into "Damage" like a geranium in a flowerpot and then "solved" in a TV hour. That's my problem: bad storytellng. I believe this is Jolene's complaint also.

Originally Posted by persianmouse

Most of this is just because she's Vulcan, and there is a misconception that you can define that into one particular set of rules, and if you deviate from those rules in any way, you cease to be Vulcan.

I agree, but remember, this "misconception" is how Roddenberry set the universe up! So forgive us if we expect the franchise to keep playing by the rules originally established.

Originally Posted by persianmouse

And yes admittidly, there is some T&A for no purpose other than T&A, but that's everywhere on TV, it's like commericals, and it should not distract you from the overall story.

that's what Jolene is saying. She knows she's T&A, but she doesn't want it to replace the story. In S3, not only did it distract me from the story, it was presented AS the story, and I resented it.

[Alexia]

Originally Posted by Zeke

No, I haven't. This has just been a very rough month for daily updates, especially the end.

You, my boy, need to stop beating yourself up everytime you miss an update! The world doesn't end if you miss one you know :wink:

Originally Posted by Zeke

I was hit very hard and very fast by something this week and it's been all I could do since then to get the bare minimum done. I've been left seriously wondering if anything I do is worth it.

Believe me, it is. I've met a lot of wonderful people through this site, through you. You, Colin "Zeke" Hayman, are a wonderful person. Cheer up :wink: Misery does not suit you :wink:

Originally Posted by Zeke

But I'll be making a newspost tonight, and I'll try to get back onto a daily schedule from then on. The daily updates aren't dead. I'm just wondering whether it would matter if they were.

It would matter if you gave up on updating full stop. I personally like the daily updates because you tend to use them as a sort of journal of Zeke. You tell us where you've been and what you've been doing to invariably delay site content updating :wink: If you wrote in your actually LJ more then maybe I wouldn't need these updates to know you are alive :mrgreen: I also like the random links you put in. They amuse me But as I said before, don't worry if you can't make one. We understand there is life outside of 5MV and you are one busy guy.

Just don't go and disappear completely, ok? People worry!