The Five-Minute Forums  

Go Back   The Five-Minute Forums > FiveMinute.net > Science Fiction

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-20-2003, 04:20 AM
Kira's Avatar
Kira Kira is offline
Annoy, tiny blonde one! Annoy like the wind!
Former Staff
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mars
Posts: 780
Send a message via ICQ to Kira Send a message via MSN to Kira Send a message via Yahoo to Kira
Default

[color=#000000ost_uid0]I'm not sure what to think about this episode. Â My first impression is that it's a great concept, but the execution leaves something to be desired.

First of all, YEEEAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHH! Â IMBECILES! Â DNA DOES NOT CONTAIN MEMORIES! Â Phlox's comment that this is a "new discovery" placated me for a few seconds, but not for long. Â First off, a "new discovery" on [iost_uid0]Enterprise[/iost_uid0] is an [iost_uid0]old[/iost_uid0] discovery on Star Trek. Â And even now, we know that DNA just doesn't change -- or at least, nobody yet has ever proven that it changes to an extent that it could encode memories. Â I have a feeling the conversation went something like this:

Writer 1: "Hey! Â What if Trip's clone had his memories?"
Writer 2: "Yeah! Â That would be great! Â Then he'd be all asking questions, and freaking everyone out, and he could help the crew, and even hit on T'Pol!"
Writer 3: "Um, guys? Â He's a clone. Â He wouldn't have memories."
Writer 1: "Who cares? Â Conflict! Â Tension!"
Writer 2: "[iost_uid0]Sexual[/iost_uid0] tension!"
(Writers 1 and 2 give each other high fives)

I won't be surprised if our resident chemists were similarily hysterical at the "nucleonic particles" attacking the hull, but I'll leave that for them to butcher.

As for this week's topic of choice.... The good news is, we got a little more subtlety this time around than we did with, say, "Stigma." Â ("What's this? Â You mean prejudice against AIDS is [iost_uid0]bad?[/iost_uid0]") Â The bad news is, if what the writers were getting at it stem cell research, they're a little off track. Â The obvious differences are, of course, that (1) stem cells used for research aren't obtained from embryos created specifically [iost_uid0]for[/iost_uid0] research and (2) stem cell research doesn't involve growing up a sentient organism, then killing it. Â This isn't to say that there aren't simliarities, but those are two very important points that distance the episode from the issue it seems they're trying to tackle.

One twist that I did like was the revelation (a rather convenient one, but meh) that "Sim" had a chance, albeit a slim one, to live out a normal human lifespan. Â Then again, this led to the "Even if it means killing you" conversation, which seemed harsh -- whether it was deservedly so, I'm not sure. Â I actually wondered whether they were going to pull a "Deadlock" and have Trip's clone replace him -- which would have explained their stupid "DNA has memory" thing since they'd need it as a fallback. Â I did like the conflict created, but I'm not sure it was handled as well as similar issues have been on other series.

I'm surprised it took them fifty minutes to get T'Pol and the clone locking lips. Â I kept debating which would win out -- common sense (T'Pol is, after all, Vulcan and hasn't ever shown definitive interest in Trip) or UPN. Â I guess the fifty-minute delay can be explained if you consider it took them under two to have T'Pol leaning over Trip in a provocative position. Â (And that scene was going so well until then... sigh.)

Overall? Â I'm not sure. Â The episode was far from a disaster, but I'm not entirely certain it was a roaring success, either.

Next week: [iost_uid0]Star Trek IV[/iost_uid0], minus two whales.[/colorost_uid0]
__________________
\"It\'s all fun and games until one of you gets my foot up your ass.\"
--Veronica Mars
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-20-2003, 12:49 PM
Celeste's Avatar
Celeste Celeste is offline
Insert canine joke here
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: USS Crazy Horse
Posts: 775
Send a message via AIM to Celeste Send a message via MSN to Celeste Send a message via Yahoo to Celeste
Default

[color=#000000ost_uid0]I liked this episode. It had a good story and I even had to break out the tissues towards the end. ^_~

As far as the memories in DNA thing. I saw a program on the discovery channel or somewhere, about a universal memory that is passed down to every human. I can't remember much about it, but that's immediatly what I thought of when they said Sim had Trips memories.[/colorost_uid0]
__________________
Dental Hygienists are X-Rayted.

*´¨)
¸.·´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·*¨)
(¸.·´ (¸.·`Floss Naked!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-20-2003, 01:18 PM
Derek's Avatar
Derek Derek is offline
Dean of misderektion
Senior Staff
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Sector 001
Posts: 1,106
Default

[color=#000000ost_uid0]You know, with last week's episode and this week's episode, I haven't had the feeling of being in the expanse, looking for the Xindi, like I've had previously. "Similitude" just felt like another Trek episode, not like an Enterprise episode. Whether that's good or bad is debatable, but I like the way this season generally has a feeling all its own that other Treks don't have.

As for the episode... whatever. It didn't really appeal to me. I didn't buy T'Pol kissing Sim. I didn't buy Sim's memories. It had some good scenes, but for whatever reasons, I wasn't invested in it. Oh well.[/colorost_uid0]
__________________
"Please, Aslan," said Lucy, "what do you call soon?"
"I call all times soon," said Aslan; and instantly he vanished away and Lucy was alone with the Magician.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-21-2003, 12:59 AM
galibert galibert is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 13
Default

[color=#000000ost_uid0]Note that about the memories we don't really know if it's actual genetic memory or "simply" telepathy due the the extreme similarity of the two brains (ala Van Vogt's Non-A).

But if you want to bitch at bad physics, please tell me what the nx-01 was stuck on that the schuttlepods had to somehow wrench it out of.

OG.[/colorost_uid0]
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-21-2003, 02:00 AM
Kira's Avatar
Kira Kira is offline
Annoy, tiny blonde one! Annoy like the wind!
Former Staff
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mars
Posts: 780
Send a message via ICQ to Kira Send a message via MSN to Kira Send a message via Yahoo to Kira
Default

[quoteost_uid0="galibert"][color=#000000ost_uid0]But if you want to bitch at bad physics, please tell me what the nx-01 was stuck on that the schuttlepods had to somehow wrench it out of.[/colorost_uid0][/quoteost_uid0]
[color=#000000ost_uid0]Remember the big explosion that harmed Trip in the first place? And how they spent the entire episode trying to repair the engines? They weren't stuck, they were just without propulsion. (Why they didn't have impulse is something I'm a little fuzzy on.) They needed to get out of the cloud so the shuttlepods towed them.[/colorost_uid0]
__________________
\"It\'s all fun and games until one of you gets my foot up your ass.\"
--Veronica Mars
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-21-2003, 03:57 AM
Zeke's Avatar
Zeke Zeke is offline
The lens that flares in the night
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 3,396
Send a message via ICQ to Zeke Send a message via AIM to Zeke Send a message via Yahoo to Zeke
Default

[color=#000000ost_uid0]I just watched the episode. It was a fantastic piece of television, and right now I don't like anybody. Not the characters, not the writers, and not [iost_uid0]you[/iost_uid0]. Yeah, you.

More later. I need a bit of time to start liking stuff again.[/colorost_uid0]
__________________
FiveMinute.net: because stuff is long and life is short

[03:17] FiveMinZeke: Galactica clearly needs the advanced technology of scissors, which get around the whole "yanking on your follicles" problem.
[03:17] IJD: cylons can hack any blades working in conjunction
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-21-2003, 08:01 AM
NeoMatrix's Avatar
NeoMatrix NeoMatrix is offline
Factorial
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Augusta, GA
Posts: 6,139
Send a message via AIM to NeoMatrix Send a message via MSN to NeoMatrix Send a message via Yahoo to NeoMatrix
Default

[color=#000000ost_uid0]I liked the episode. Sorta reminded me of "Tuvix"

(I knew it was Tuvix. Stupid spelling errors)[/colorost_uid0]

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-21-2003, 06:25 PM
catalina_marina's Avatar
catalina_marina catalina_marina is offline
Surfin' you say?
Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: North-West of the South-East of Nowhere.
Posts: 4,949
Send a message via ICQ to catalina_marina Send a message via AIM to catalina_marina Send a message via MSN to catalina_marina Send a message via Yahoo to catalina_marina
Default

[color=#000000ost_uid0]That would be "Tuvix", and I got that too. Especially when Archer suddenly started Threatening Sim.[/colorost_uid0]
__________________
~Bachelor of Science Marijke

I'm not the devil, I just work for her.

What spoon? There is no spoon. According to Zeke, it's a cat. ~NeoMatrix

"Apparently we're on the wrong side. Or the right side if you like winning." ~Spike

Sa'ar Chasm: Too far south you hit Belgium.
catalina marina: Not in Limburg you don't.
Sa'ar Chasm: You do if you go south in the right way.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-21-2003, 08:50 PM
PointyHairedJedi's Avatar
PointyHairedJedi PointyHairedJedi is offline
He'd enjoy a third pie
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: The Scotlands
Posts: 4,354
Send a message via ICQ to PointyHairedJedi Send a message via AIM to PointyHairedJedi Send a message via Yahoo to PointyHairedJedi
Default

[color=#000000ost_uid0]This whole memory thing sounds suspiciously similar to the Idaho ghola recoving his memory in [iost_uid0]Children of Dune[/iost_uid0], though I guess I'll have to reserve judgement 'till I actually see the episode.[/colorost_uid0]
__________________
Mason: Luckily we at the Agency use use a high-tech piece of software that will let us spot him instantly via high-res satellite images.
Sergeant: You can? That's amazing!
Mason: Yes. We call it 'Google Earth'.
- Five Minute 24 S1 (it lives, honest!)

"Everybody loves pie!"
- Spongebob Squarepants
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-21-2003, 11:06 PM
Michiel's Avatar
Michiel Michiel is offline
Last of the ko fighters
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 523
Default

[color=#000000ost_uid0]Does anyone know how Phlox thought of the name 'Sim'? Did it mean anything?[/colorost_uid0]
__________________
The strength of a civilization is not measured by its ability
to wage wars, but rather by its ability to prevent them.
- Gene Roddenberry
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-21-2003, 11:18 PM
NAHTMMM's Avatar
NAHTMMM NAHTMMM is offline
Noodles And Hot Tofu! MMM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: St Louis, MO, USA, . . .
Posts: 2,959
Send a message via Yahoo to NAHTMMM
Default

[color=#000000ost_uid0]From "Similitude", which is related to "similarity", which is related to "similitudinariousness".

Or so I assume. [/colorost_uid0]
__________________
My 5MV webpages My novel fivers list

Yup

“There must have been a point in early human history when it was actually advantageous to, when confronted with a difficult task, drop it altogether and go do something more fun, because I do that way too often for it to be anything but instinct.” -- Isto Combs
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-22-2003, 12:48 AM
mudshark's Avatar
mudshark mudshark is offline
Is he ever gonna hit Krazy Kat, or what?
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: UMRK
Posts: 1,738
Default

[color=#000000ost_uid0]^ Or [iost_uid0]simulacrum.[/iost_uid0][/colorost_uid0]
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-22-2003, 11:29 AM
Michiel's Avatar
Michiel Michiel is offline
Last of the ko fighters
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 523
Default

[color=#000000ost_uid0]Ah, yes. The title. But I didn't know what that meant.[/colorost_uid0]
__________________
The strength of a civilization is not measured by its ability
to wage wars, but rather by its ability to prevent them.
- Gene Roddenberry
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-22-2003, 03:21 PM
Zeke's Avatar
Zeke Zeke is offline
The lens that flares in the night
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 3,396
Send a message via ICQ to Zeke Send a message via AIM to Zeke Send a message via Yahoo to Zeke
Default

[quoteost_uid0="Michiel"][color=#000000ost_uid0]Does anyone know how Phlox thought of the name 'Sim'? Did it mean anything?[/colorost_uid0][/quoteost_uid0]
[color=#000000ost_uid0]He's a Ray Bradbury fan, that's how. Scroll to the highlighted part of this essay, where it discusses Bradbury's novella "Frost and Fire."[/colorost_uid0]
__________________
FiveMinute.net: because stuff is long and life is short

[03:17] FiveMinZeke: Galactica clearly needs the advanced technology of scissors, which get around the whole "yanking on your follicles" problem.
[03:17] IJD: cylons can hack any blades working in conjunction
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-22-2003, 03:55 PM
galibert galibert is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 13
Default

[color=#000000ost_uid0][quoteost_uid0="Kira"][quoteost_uid0="galibert"]But if you want to bitch at bad physics, please tell me what the nx-01 was stuck on that the schuttlepods had to somehow wrench it out of.[/quoteost_uid0]
Remember the big explosion that harmed Trip in the first place? And how they spent the entire episode trying to repair the engines? Â They weren't stuck, they were just without propulsion. Â (Why they didn't have impulse is something I'm a little fuzzy on.) Â They needed to get out of the cloud so the shuttlepods towed them.[/quoteost_uid0]
It's not having to tow them, it's the acceleration pattern that's all wrong. Â They tow, the enterprise doesn't move, they tow harder, still doesn't move, they tow hardest, a shudder and suddendly it moves, and they need less traction for more acceleration after that point.

Problem is, only adhesion forces have this kind of pattern, countering the force you apply exactly until you reach a limit where all the countering force dissapears. Â Pressure from the gases around would be proportional to v squared (i.e. pulling would be harder as they accelerate with no resistance at startup), magnetic field would be position-dependant only and independant of the towing forces.

So the enterprise was stuck on something, but there is a annoying lack of something around....

Of course only B5 seemed to care about space movement physics anyway :-)

 OG.[/colorost_uid0]

Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-22-2003, 04:23 PM
catalina_marina's Avatar
catalina_marina catalina_marina is offline
Surfin' you say?
Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: North-West of the South-East of Nowhere.
Posts: 4,949
Send a message via ICQ to catalina_marina Send a message via AIM to catalina_marina Send a message via MSN to catalina_marina Send a message via Yahoo to catalina_marina
Default

[color=#000000ost_uid0]If we're picking on the episode's physics anyway, tell me why the magnetic stuff that was stuck on Enterprise's hull let go of it when they moved out of that nebula (or whatever it was).[/colorost_uid0]
__________________
~Bachelor of Science Marijke

I'm not the devil, I just work for her.

What spoon? There is no spoon. According to Zeke, it's a cat. ~NeoMatrix

"Apparently we're on the wrong side. Or the right side if you like winning." ~Spike

Sa'ar Chasm: Too far south you hit Belgium.
catalina marina: Not in Limburg you don't.
Sa'ar Chasm: You do if you go south in the right way.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-22-2003, 06:26 PM
FatMatDuhRat's Avatar
FatMatDuhRat FatMatDuhRat is offline
Hello, John
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 187
Send a message via Yahoo to FatMatDuhRat
Default

[color=#000000ost_uid0]I am totally astounded by the link that [bost_uid0]Zeke[/bost_uid0] provided
for us in order to read all the information about the
[bost_uid0]Bradbury[/bost_uid0] story & all of its similarities (Ha-Ha) to the
ENT episode which was just on TV.
:smile:
And I'm not going to jump off the ship even though
some ppl might be screaming at me that it's sinking.
I really like [bost_uid0]ENT[/bost_uid0], and the previous episode (as well
as [bost_uid0]Twilight[/bost_uid0]) proved to me that I should keep on
watching it. I've missed a few eps of Season 3 so
far (including the one with all the horses) but I'll
see those again during the summer repeats.

I'm anxious to see the upcoming one where the
[bost_uid0]Andorians[/bost_uid0] return (and we get to see the inside of
their ship) and I'd also like to stick around to see
what the frell the writers are going to come up with
for the bunch of episodes that're suppossed to be
aired during "sweeps week."[/colorost_uid0]
__________________
Do you think neural clones go to heaven? --John Crichton, Incubator (EP#3-11)
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-23-2003, 08:38 PM
Wowbagger's Avatar
Wowbagger Wowbagger is offline
Long fellow
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Tanngrisnir
Posts: 419
Default

[color=#000000ost_uid0]I pretty much agree with Zeke on this one: great television that puts one in a very bad mood. Thursday was not a good day for me.

The show brings up a very important question: Was Sim's life as valuable as Trip's? This question parallels some significant political/social/religious questions here in the States (I don't know about you canucks) about abortion, stem cell research, cloning, and euthanasia. Who counts as alive, and whose lives are more important?

I also am looking forward to how this affects Archer. Sure, he got Trip back, but at what cost?[/colorost_uid0]
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-07-2004, 07:17 AM
MaverickZer0's Avatar
MaverickZer0 MaverickZer0 is offline
Suuuuuper genius
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: On Beach Street, in a Dimensional Area
Posts: 745
Send a message via AIM to MaverickZer0 Send a message via MSN to MaverickZer0 Send a message via Yahoo to MaverickZer0
Default

[color=#000000ost_uid0]Please no reset button.

I liked it personally. But right now I have to get over hating the world...and resist the urge to shoot the writers for making Archer a jerk in this one...

Trip is my favorite character. Killing any version of him means pain for them. Especially if Malcolm goes does too, which means 'Twilight' is a double death for B&B.[/colorost_uid0]
__________________
Sig v8.2.2

No, I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm going to go and do it anyway.

*pokes avatar* Made by a good LJ friend. Thanks Ani!

Dark Blues: I'm going to kill you!
Enzan: Not if I kill me first!
Dark Blues: You...are aware my goal is accomplished either way, right?
Enzan: ...Yeah...
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-07-2004, 06:09 PM
PointyHairedJedi's Avatar
PointyHairedJedi PointyHairedJedi is offline
He'd enjoy a third pie
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: The Scotlands
Posts: 4,354
Send a message via ICQ to PointyHairedJedi Send a message via AIM to PointyHairedJedi Send a message via Yahoo to PointyHairedJedi
Default

[color=#000000ost_uid0]*[iost_uid0]CoughTuvixCoughCough[/iost_uid0]*[/colorost_uid0]
__________________
Mason: Luckily we at the Agency use use a high-tech piece of software that will let us spot him instantly via high-res satellite images.
Sergeant: You can? That's amazing!
Mason: Yes. We call it 'Google Earth'.
- Five Minute 24 S1 (it lives, honest!)

"Everybody loves pie!"
- Spongebob Squarepants
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.