Holy question

[Chancellor Valium]

Originally Posted by Burt

That’s the part I dislike. Religion can be fine. I may not quite agree with some of it's ideas on creation etc i.e. world in seven days, or water into wine, but hey, it hurts nobody. (Unless people insist on teaching that in schools ‘instead’ of science. Ala’ certain American states. As well as – fine. Instead of? Not so much).

Yeah, the whole one or t'other attitude isn't the most logical.

Originally Posted by Burt

What I'm not pleased about, is the use of a Religion as a means of opposing things that someone dislikes. If a person really truly, has a problem with Homosexuals, then so long as you're polite about it, fine! I mean, honestly, (and maybe somewhat hypocritically) I'm not overly great with the idea of Trans-Gender people. Might be because I don’t really know any people with those issues, but I understand they still need their rights, because they’ve not done anything wrong. But when a Religions start using words like ‘grave sins’, it somewhat moves peoples opinions for them. In the least, it doesn’t help matters.

It depends, I think, on whether the 'grave sins' are eating pancakes or chocolate or genocide, IMO...

Originally Posted by Burt

But yes I did study the ….(document with the longest name in the world)

Heh, try Kant's Groundwork for the Metaphysics of Morals. By the time you've finished the title, it's time for tea...

Originally Posted by Burt

… ‘Instruction Concerning the Criteria for the Discernment of Vocations with regard to Persons with Homosexual Tendencies in view of their Admission to the Seminary and to Holy Orders’, which you speak of. And yes it was better than hoped. And it’s fine for the Catholic Church to ask that it’s Homosexual Priests must promise sexual abstinence. All priests must be practice celibacy, straight or not. However, such groups like Jehovah Witnesses insist on Homosexual abstinence only. Well that’s about the same as asking a Felmale to dress in male clothes or some such.

I'll have to take your word for it. I tend to send J's Ws running with stern looks and telling them I believe in Ethical Non-Cognitivism.

Originally Posted by Burt

I did find a great site, written by someone, using clear and simple science to prove certain things, this time being the debate about Creationism. I found it very good.
http://members.shaw.ca/amitdeshwar/creationism.html

Personally, I'd always assumed the Genesis Creation to be allegorical, like St. John's.

Originally Posted by Burt

But this whole debate has somewhat move to the one subject. On the very first point, I remember there being a small uproar about Picard's line in 'Who Watches The Watchers'. The 'sending the Mintakans back to the dark ages because of Religion' bit. I don't know. Evidence of Star Trek being Anti-Religion? What about Doctor Who though? It has many, many stories which take Religion and such and turn it into Science or Aliens. See 'The Satan Pit'.

Mmm. That's one thing that has always somewhat irritated me, personally, alongside the shiny perfection of the UFP. Kept reminding me of the Nutrimatic drinks dispenser...In some ways, I feel that DS9 best handled religion and science in science fiction, up until BSG, which I think is possibly going to really develop these themes in s3...You're right, of course. Especially in Doctor Who there are a lot of gods and would-be gods who turn out to simply be pseudo-omnipotent beings, or people with delusions of grandeur, or both. And more generally there is a tendency in sci-fi to dismiss religion. Personally, I can't see a clash between religion and science unless one or another side pushes one.

[Gatac]

The Christian concept of "Sin" has spawned a few interesting developments. Take, for example, Antinomianism, which holds that souls are only saved by the grace of God - hence meaning that your salvation is totally independant from whatever sins you may have committed in your lifetime.

As the Rotten Library on the topic puts it:

In other words, par-TAY!

For all the hype, they didn't really seem to do anything noteworthy, though.

Gatac

[Zeke]

Wow. I just discovered what was going on in this thread. Glad it eventually settled down without my having to intervene.

In future, if a fight like this starts and I don't react, can someone please PM me? I don't read every post in Misc.

[PointyHairedJedi]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Glad it eventually settled down without my having to intervene.

Maybe there's a lesson in there somewhere, Zeke...?

[Hejira]

Yeah, but intervention's quicker.

[Burt]

Originally Posted by Hejira

Yeah, but intervention's quicker.

Somehow, I think you may have missed the point

[mudshark]

No, I don't think she did.

[e of pi]

Yeah, I hate to say this, but when I had talked to the two of you, you both said you were willing to risk a banning as long as you got in the last word. This thing could have gotten really ugly if yuo two hadn't slowed down when you did.

[Burt]

Originally Posted by e of pi

Yeah, I hate to say this, but when I had talked to the two of you, you both said you were willing to risk a banning as long as you got in the last word. This thing could have gotten really ugly if yuo two hadn't slowed down when you did.

That's a very childish way of saying something. I know they weren't my words, and I'm guessing the Chancellor didn't say he just wanted to 'Get the last word in'.
I had my points to make and he had his. Maybe we made them too harshly, and maybe there shouldn't have been swearing. But the point of a Online forum to to discuss. No-one forces anyone to read anything.
A 'Banning' is insignificant against making sure you're true to your principles
and beliefs.

To be honest I may not agree what The Chancellor says, but I have a hell of a lot more respect for him than some others. As he put it when people suggested we change the subject:

Originally Posted by Chancellor Valium

Great idea - e! That's right, lets sweep our problems under the carpet and pretend they're not there!

So no. Lets not do that.

And yes. It seems some arguments can become heated. But like everything else in the universe they will cool. Maybe not totally, but at least below boiling point! And ours did. We'd finally said our pieces and moved on to other parts. Nuclear War averted.
Having someone come in a 'intervene' will solve nothing. Yes at times, it might be needed. But usually people will be left... unsatisfied.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by PointyHairedJedi

Maybe there's a lesson in there somewhere, Zeke...?

There would be if I were a Nazi admin like they have in some forums. My only modding hot button is politics, which I've learned the hard way not to let into this forum, and I think I'm going to relax even that rule somewhat.

(Unless the lesson you mean is "Don't ignore Misc," in which case point taken.)

Anyway, I really dislike closing threads, but this one's time has come -- I probably should have closed it with my previous post. The argument is over and should be let lie. If this is a problem for anyone, PM me.