Dr Who Series 4!

[PointyHairedJedi]

That gimmick gets tiresome after a while, doesn't it? Methinks he's watched a little too much Voyager.

[whoiam]

Finally got around to watching Silence in the Library.

I, as an Avatar of Pessimism Incarnate, duly declare this episode's rating to be....

Promising!
*classical music blares from a heavenly choir*

A little more seriously, I can only, offhand, think of four two-parters in the new series where I've found the first part really... impressive... And this was the fourth. (For the record, the other three were The Empty Child, Family of Blood and the year 5^10^x. *sniffs* Poor Chan'tho.)

I don't know, maybe I've just been a sucker for anthropomorphised computers since I first ran across SHODAN all those years ago. "LLLoook at you, Hackerrr..." - good times.

Now, onto my traditional nitpicking: The little bit at the end of Donna's face on the information kiosk... Works fine for giving the Doctor a clue as to what's going on, but for anyone in the audience with a passing familiarity with, say, Trek-Style transporters it immediately makes you think "Her teleport pattern is saved in the computer, and all the doctor has to do is coax it out of the data core in the second part!" In terms of building suspense, it would have been far more effective to delay telling the audience that the computer did it for as long as possible. Of course, the less Trek and related series you've been exposed to, the less likely you are to have had that particular chain of thoughts...

[Burt]

Heh, I completely got that too. The 'Donna has been saved' and the 4400 saved... bit of a give away...
I do like busy endings though - lots of things going on...
Donna - Still - is fantastic in my opinion. Her moan about the sonic screwdriver 'It doesn't work on wood??' and 'Did we just run away from a powercut?' Other companions just couldn't pull off these lines!
Looking forward to the next set of episodes thought. The (sadly) Donna-lite episode, then a Doctor-lite episode! (Means more Donna I'm hoping?)

[whoiam]

Well, the preceeding two Doctor-lite episodes (Love and Monsters and Blink) tended to be companion-lite as well.

The ending would have been just as busy without Donna's face on the info robot, I think, and would have been far more tense if all we'd seen was her disappearing from the Tardis.

Anyway, since you seem so insistent on claiming Donna is the greatest companion of the new series...

Rose - Slightly grating personality and voice, frequent trips to Mary Sue-dom. Grade B-
Adam - Bland and Boring. Only lasted two episodes and that was probably an episode too long. Grade F
Jack - It's always nice to see someone who isn't quite as clueless as the average extra. I'd prefer a little less in the way of indiscriminite flirting - there's a difference between omnisexual and sex-obsessed - but overall, not the greatest of quibbles. At least not during his Doctor Who episodes, by all accounts this sort of thing can get quite excessive over in Torchwood. Grade B+
Mickey - Actually promising towards the end of Rose's run on the show. He didn't know what he was doing in other time periods but damn was he trying. I would have dearly loved to see Mickey stick around the Tardis a little longer - he seemed to have the most unrealised potential of any of the companions. Grade: B
Martha - Spent a good portion of the first half of her season strangled by the memory of Blondie Sue from the seasons before. Coming a little more into her own as the seaon went on, but left before she could really stamp herself on the role. Like Mickey, she had more potential as a character then she actually realised. Grade B
Donna - Supports the Doctor without stealing the spotlight quite so much. Has never tried to get by on her looks and has never requested the tone shift to something more Star-Trek-Esque. All plusses. Her contributions all seem to be appropriate to the character - about my only niggle is that she occasionally shows a tendancy to slip towards pantomime acting... and a characterisation flaw. Her Empathy for beings in need and new and different ways of doing things stretches about as far as Rubber Forehead Aliens but no further than that: Any time she comes across something more outlandish, it's typically disbelief or shock. I mean, she *chose* to go out and explore the universe. Is it too much to ask that someone does this understanding that *not everything is done the way it's done on earth*? Now much as it pains me to say it... Donna, Grade A-.

I actually agree with Bert. I typed out the above just to be sure... *sigh* It's a poor, poor argument when noone's taking a contrarian opinion. Perhaps Valium or PHJ would care to play Devil's advocate?

[Burt]

Don't get me wrong, I still think Rose was pretty great.. and that the new series wouldn't have done so well without her.. But Martha... she was too alike (In love with the Doctor and all).. Jack.. yeah he's a laugh, but to be honest, I think he's way too over the top. Embarrassing even.
Donna, I totally agree with the slipping into pantomime slightly... but as Tate said on a talk show one time, she (Donna) is excited by all this and likes the Doctor, but just for what he can show her - She knows he's go two hearts - and doesn't wanna know what else he's doubled up on...
But the lines she comes out with... how she stands up to the Doctor and tells him when he's wrong and is there to stop him when he goes to far. But I like how she still keeps that 'airhead' look on life.
I suppose it's also because she's a little older than Rose and Martha too.
Still, it makes me deeply enjoy EVERY episode because of her.

Oh and the next episode is Companion-lite, but the one after is said to be Doctor-lite, and being more about Donna. Which is nice.

[PointyHairedJedi]

I'm not going to disagree on Donna, I'm rather growing to like her. And, I liked the episode too, though there's one small nitpick - four thousand seems a rather small number of people for there to have been on a whole planet - even with heavy automation you'd surely need a few hundred thousand just as staff, let alone all the visitors the Doctor made it sound like it should have. But anyway, that's a small thing.

If they do end up having Donna falling for the Doctor though, I may very well actually stop watching - three in a row is just too bloody much.

[Chancellor Valium]

Originally Posted by whoiam

Oddly enough, no rotten fruit heading Burt's way yet. Look back at my long complaint against sections of the 2nd part of the Sontaren arc. Now read my complaints about the Unicorn and the Wasp:

The Doctor really should have concentrated on telling Donna what he needed first, and then mocking her wild guesses afterwards.

Quite an improvement, no?

Going back slightly to the Doctor's Daughter, I have to admit that, again, I felt it was an improvement on the earlier episodes. About the only parts that really grate are the Doctor, who should know intimately just what Jenny's body is capable of, forgetting that she can do things like regenerate or (temporarily) slow (her perception of) time to get past environmental dangers. Considering that he's been declared dead by human doctors before, he should have known better than to rely on Martha's diagnosis.

Anyway, in conclusion: Season's been improving, hope it keeps it up - it'll be throwing something truly exceptional at us through the middle of the season if it does.

(before we go back to the series' Patented Flashy Davies Series End. Complete with Reset Button.)

The only bit of that episode that really impressed me was Tennants "A shared washing-machine, a shared toaster...

...A shared banana pancake."

speech. Utter gibberish, but a brilliantly performed scene.

@Bert: I'm sure Sarah-Jane did it a few times; Tegan's another likely candidate, as are Ianara and Babran.

The Unicorn and the Wasp was just too...obvious, for my tastes.

And why go for such a boring choice as a writer who would like the Doctor? Why not one who'd hate him? It would be so much more fun.

The performances were all right, though nothing fantastic, given the cast.

As for this week's...Definitely preferred Miles' offering. It was so much more engaging, IMO.

@Pointy: He wrote some of the NAs/MAs and created Faction Paradox. I think his most famous books were Christmas On A Rational Planet, Alien Bodies and Interference, which came in two parts.

[PointyHairedJedi]

I've read very few, though I have a few second hand ones. I've read three times as many of the Beeb novels, but at the rate they come out that doesn't count for much.

[whoiam]

(new) Series 5, 2010. Head writer: Steven Moffat. Executive Producer: Steven Moffat.

Here's to a season whose first and last episodes are well-written!

[Chancellor Valium]

I wouldn't call it good...just not as bad. It'll be watchable.

Really, Lawrence Miles is most interesting on this: http://beasthouse-lm2.blogspot.com/

[Zeke]

Valium, I really think you should be careful about this man-crush on Lawrence Miles. I haven't read his pilot script yet, but I've read the whole blog now, and he is a piece of work. In particular, you should bear in mind that he hates you. Me too, but you more.

That said, while I have to resent his view of sci-fi fans, I agree with one of his main points in that post: Russell Davies gets a bad rap lately. It's his vision of Who that brought the franchise back to life on TV, and I'm betting a lot of the bashers will find themselves missing him when he's gone.

I haven't had the chance to see season 4 yet, but I'm looking forward to it. (There's a kinda complicated reason: I want to watch Torchwood S2 first, but before I do that I'm determined to finish my fiver of "Everything Changes", which I started before the new season hoping to take advantage of the timing.) I do have two links to toss at y'all, though.

• Paul Cornell wrote a little Who story for Christmas '07 which was published in the Telegraph: "The Hopes and Fears of All the Years". I've liked Cornell since I read his New Trek Programme Guide as a kid (backwards and forwards). The story seems written with young readers in mind, and it's too sweet for me to gripe about the very predictable ending.
• I'm a webcomic addict, but I've never seen one as ambitious as Rich Morris's The Ten Doctors. I'm halfway through and I love it; it's as big, messy, and entertaining as a story with ten Doctors should be, and the likenesses are incredible. Check it out.

[whoiam]

Noting what seems to be a certain mild reproof in Zeke's post, I'd like to clarify a point here: My personal opinion on RTD isn't along the lines of "Hate...hate...HATE!" or anything. But I'm not blind to the fact that for all the good he may do as an executive producer, the standout episodes in the new series are typically *not* the ones written by him.

To that end, I'm actually looking forwards to the Head Writer role being passed on to someone whose own efforts have been rather stronger.

Now on the subject of executive producer I'm a little less enthusiastic - partly because I have few complaints about the production of Doctor Who and partly out of the fear that the added responsibility might prevent Steven Moffat from writing as well as he has done so far. This is why I only stated the first and last episodes to be well-written - I have no idea how Moffat will do managing the other writers, so his ascension to a higher level of employment may result in the series switching from (typically) weak at either end to (typically) weak in the middle.

Still, I'm not actually thinking I'll miss RTD - the old series survived several changes in production staff, I suspect the new series will as well. After all, with the ratings it has been getting in the UK, it can probably survive having an off season whilst Moffat gets used to the job.

[Zeke]

Hope I didn't give you the wrong impression, whoiam -- nobody here has to edit himself (figuratively) on my account. As long as you guys don't break the rules, you're welcome to post anything you want.

That said, I do disagree about RTD. It was his "Rose" that made me a Who fan. I don't like all his episodes, and I wish he'd stop hitting us with that big hammer labelled "Maximum Gay", but in general I'm a fan. And anyone who's on the receiving end of the basher mentality has my sympathy if nothing else. Some of the attacks on RTD remind me of what B&B got. Fandom is a harsh mistress; whatever is loved will sooner or later be hated. Ask the Heroes writers. (Even Ron Moore is finally getting a taste of it over at BSG.)

As for how the show will look under Moffat, I wouldn't expect too big a change. He seems in line with RTD's ideas about the show, and it's the same writing staff and all that. I'm guessing it'll be like how Voyager changed when Braga took over in S5 or Biller in S7 -- more like fine-tuning than reworking.

[Chancellor Valium]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Valium, I really think you should be careful about this man-crush on Lawrence Miles. I haven't read his pilot script yet,

Until I did, I thought he was pretty crackers.

Originally Posted by Zeke

but I've read the whole blog now, and he is a piece of work. In particular, you should bear in mind that he hates you. Me too, but you more.

...And why is his judgement necessarily wrong because of this?

Originally Posted by Zeke

That said, while I have to resent his view of sci-fi fans, I agree with one of his main points in that post: Russell Davies gets a bad rap lately. It's his vision of Who that brought the franchise back to life on TV, and I'm betting a lot of the bashers will find themselves missing him when he's gone.

I doubt it. His insertions are too blatant and overriding to be mistaken for those of the current script editor.

Originally Posted by Zeke

As for how the show will look under Moffat, I wouldn't expect too big a change. He seems in line with RTD's ideas about the show, and it's the same writing staff and all that. I'm guessing it'll be like how Voyager changed when Braga took over in S5 or Biller in S7 -- more like fine-tuning than reworking.

Personally, I'm hoping for a move away from rather moronic ephemera - and more specifically, English moronic ephemera, that I suspect alienate those viewers outside this sceptr'd spot who don't have our tabloids mailed over to them in regular batches.

[Wowbagger]

Expect an exceptionally long rant from me in this thread, just as soon as SciFi in the States has caught up with the rest of the world and I can safely read this without spoilers.

Gorram bashers...

[PointyHairedJedi]

Originally Posted by Zeke

• I'm a webcomic addict, but I've never seen one as ambitious as Rich Morris's The Ten Doctors. I'm halfway through and I love it; it's as big, messy, and entertaining as a story with ten Doctors should be, and the likenesses are incredible. Check it out.

You... you bastard. You know now that you've linked to that I'll be able to do nothing for the next two days but read it. And I was so looking forward to sleep, too.

[whoiam]

PHJ: I know exactly how you feel. I tried an archive binge on Irregular Webcomic over the weekend. The author kept including links to other webcomics in his annotations, damn him. Legostar Galactica and Freefall seem pretty promising, though.

Wowbagger: Looking forwards to it.

Chancellor Valium: I guess the ephemera seems a touch less moronic to those of us in the UK at times - my greatest problem with the series is how every season finale involves a reset-buttoned 'end of humanity on earth' storyline and every christmas special involves something attacking present-day London. It doesn't really help much that there seems to be an 'episode-merge' template on RTD's computer, and he just has to add the villains of choice for that season.

Zeke: I think if there ever was a code of conduct for use of the internet, one of the tenets should be 'never take a position you are unwilling to defend'. It should be just as important as 'do not hijack threads (unless it would be funny to do so)' and 'anyone writing entirely in txt or 133t should have their textin' hand broken'. Unless you ever degenerate to the stage of "Agree with me or get banned" you will never owe me an apology for either disagreeing with me, arguing with me, or making me explain myself. I would hate, HATE, living in a world where those three were considered forbidden actions.

A whole world of spineless yes-men... *shudders*

[Burt]

That 10 Doctors is fantastic. I stumbled across it a few weeks ago, and lost 3 hours. Amazingly good drawing though, and very like the personality of each doctor.
I really did like the forest episode.. It confused the hell out of me for about 25 minutes.. Which I love! I like not understanding... right till the end. I thought the music was just haunting too. And River... think we'll see her again? I'm sure it's all been a big set up for future storylines. I'm however very, very worried about this 'Doctor's name' thing they have going.. It's terribly fascinating, but it can't end well. I don't want to know his name! Never, NEVER tell me! It'll just... be wrong! Saying that.. I can't help thinking what the secret could be? How can a name be sooo...bad? And he said something like 'There's only one time I could tell someone my name?' You don't think they're thinking of bringing up that old not used storyline - The One?

All very excited for the end of the series too. I hope it's on par with Series 2. That had me totally hooked. Series 3... well... I see it's charm now, but I wasn't impressed when I watched it.

[Chancellor Valium]

@whoiam: That's but one large element of my general dislike of the Zygma Experiments.

@topic: The Ten Doctors is reasonably drawn but a mediocre fanfic at best.

[Burt]

Ok, this weeks story. Clever, quite scary but a little thin on .. well story. I mean.. nothing happened! Still, enjoyed it.
But the build up to the big series end is great! Aprat from Rose returning.. there's the darkness? I'm not sure what that is, I know the big baddie is gonna be Davros, but I can't understand how he could conquer other universes? Then there is this comment towards Donna... 'There's something on your back.' which been said a few times in the series now. The trailer for next weeks episode (Turn Left) looks very exciting though. The start of a big finish!
Oh and I saw something today that is totally clear, but I didn't get untill now.
1st Doctor - Main thing - Daleks/ Daleks invade Earth
2nd Doctor - Main thing - Cybermen invade Earth
3rd Doctor - Main thing - The Master/ The Master on Earth
4th Doctor - Main thing - THE DALEKS AND DAVROS!

Then you look at each of the new series and... The pattern fits!