The Shatnerverse

[Nate the Great]

This is a general discussion topic. I'm sure many of you have read the Shatnerverse novels (The Ashes of Eden, The Return, Avenger ...), and I'm wondering who thinks that they should be incorporated into the canon. Of course, First Contact and Nemesis threw a few wrenches into the works, but on the whole it holds together remarkably well.

As a secondary discussion topic, I know a lot of people hold the novels Mosaic and Pathways as canon for Voyager. Opinions?

[Burt]

I can't say I've read the Pathways/Mosaic books, so I can't comment on them, but the Shantner ones are really quite good, and to be honest, could probery fit easy enough in with the real stuff. I mean 'The Return' was set after the Enterprise D's destruction, and, we don't really know what happend to the crew between that and First Contact. One intresting point I noticed is from the book 'Spectre', the fourth Shatner book. (Uumm...Spoilers?)
The book (Which is about the Mirror Universe) has a scene where 'our' Spock and the mirror Spock try to work out why the two universes changed. They find out that it was because of the whole First Contact thing, Borg attacking and all, that made Earth more paranoid. Then along comes 'In the Mirror Darkly'. I wonder why did the humans attack the Vulcans in that bit? Could Picard and co. have been the ones to create the mirror universe? Anyway, I'm guessing that the Reeves-Stevens's had some hand in the idea's of the episode (As they helped write the books).

[Chancellor Valium]

Not read them, but they sound interesting.

[Nate the Great]

To expound on the earlier comments, the Shatnerverse novels pinpoint exactly where our universe and the Mirror Universe separated. It occurs the morning after First Contact. Cochrane wakes up after an evening of drinking the Vulcans under the table and suddenly remembers the events of the movie. He remembers the Borg attack, the Enterprise-E, Riker, Troi, all of it. He knows that they drugged him to make him forget, but it didn't work. He knows that the implications of him telling the world about the Borg are monumental. In the end he decides to use a coin toss. Heads, he tells Lily and all the others about the existence of malevolent cyborgs in the universe. Tails, he stays silent about the whole thing. Our universe is the "tails" universe. No one knows about the Borg, so no extraordinary preparations for hostile aliens are made. The Mirror Universe is the "heads" universe. Earth unites a lot faster and the Borg are never a threat. Unfortunately, such preparations necessitate the creation of an Empire, not a Federation.

I like this idea and think it'd be great canon.

PS. I do regret that my favorite protrayal of Cochrane, in the novel Federation, has been rendered null and void. That was based on Trek canon as of about season five. In that book it's established that Cochrane built his ship, the Bonaventure, amidst all of the postatomic horror that's described in Encounter at Farpoint. It takes him a year to go to and from Alpha Centauri. His sponsor is Micah Brack, an insanely rich businessman (and an alter-ego of our favorite near-immortal, Flint). By the time he gets back, Colonel Green (of the Savage Curtain) has taken over and we're in the middle of the Eugenics Wars. Green's associate, Thorsen is obsessed with Cochrane's earlier work, including the possibility of a "warp bomb." Cochrane uses the basic warp field diagram (the Starfleet delta, complete with command insignia star) to prove such a weapon impossible. Go read the book for the details, it includes both Kirk and Picard's Enterprises having to help each other out of a black hole, a Preserver artifact hijaking Data's body, the brilliant destruction of a Romulan warbird, the real reason Cochrane ran away to the Companion's planet, and much much more.

[Burt]

Anyone read the Star Trek Deep Space Nine Series 'Millennium'? I got them when they first came out, and seem to read them again and again. But I only just realised, how utterly fantastic they are! There are three; the first is more of a mystery novel and not too far from a DS9 episode to be honest.
The second book is set in the future, and is just great! It's like one of the 'reset episodes' (Like Yesterdays Enterprise or Twilight) where you want to know more about this terrible world and how it came to be, but instead of only seeing a bit before the 'reset', you find out many things. It's a dark future where most of the Klingon Empire is destroyed, and Cardassians are almost extinct. Starfleet is crumbling while trying to fight the Bajorans and their new evil allies and so desperate; there is even an alliance with the Borg…. All this because of the prophets and a war they're fighting. Throw in two wormholes and loads of cannon references – and you’ve got a good book.
And the last book is quite special too. It’s a kind of, ensemble cast type thing. The crew get back to on to DS9 and find it ‘flicking’ through time, from the day of the Cardassian withdrawal to other points. And all the unanswered questions from the first book are solved too!

Really is a fantastic series!

[Nate the Great]

I read Millennium a long time ago and liked it, but it's been too long. I can't remember anything about it.

So there are cannon references? What kind of balls do they use?
Sorry, had to make fun of a spelling error.

[Gatac]

The Shatnerverse novels ROCK. By that I don't mean "exceptional quality" (though they are pretty good), but that they're real rollercoaster, edge-of-your-seat action in the Trek universe.

I love them with all my heart, but I find it hard to reconcile the -quite frankly - bada$$ crews from the books with what we see on the screen. (Though Nemesis Picard makes a good start when he orders ramming speed...)

Gatac

[Burt]

Originally Posted by Gatac

The Shatnerverse novels ROCK. By that I don't mean "exceptional quality" (though they are pretty good), but that they're real rollercoaster, edge-of-your-seat action in the Trek universe.

I love them with all my heart, but I find it hard to reconcile the -quite frankly - bada$$ crews from the books with what we see on the screen. (Though Nemesis Picard makes a good start when he orders ramming speed...)

Gatac

lol. They are a little wimpy sometimes on the show. A friend of mine said he's surprised that some of the crew didn't faint when Riker said 'Bastard' on Insurrection. I mean, thats really angry for Star Trek. Past the punning (for Janeway) and shaking voice (For Sisko). When they say that - wow you know that commander is pissed off!

Infinite Improbability, don't you remember all the Cannons in the books? The Cannon to the left of them...Cannon to the right of them.....

[mark726]

I have most of the Shatnerverse myself, and I very much enjoy it, personally. It makes a good transition, and there are a number of very interesting theories in it that almost hold true to the Canon.

I also loved the Millenium series. I wasn't even that much into DS9 when I read them (I mostly grabbed whatever Star Trek book I could find), but I loved it.

And Infinite, I have Federation. I loved it if only because it makes a great explanation of the Federation insignia, lol.

[Nate the Great]

Yeah, I'm glad that SOMEONE tried to explain what the Starfleet delta means. Remember when every ship had their own insignia and it wasn't until 2270 that all of Starfleet started using the delta? In Mister Scott's Guide to the Enterprise he even mentions that the big E is the only one of the initial twelve Constitution-class ships to come back to spacedock under it's own power after a full five-year mission.

Anyone have any theories why the colors for Science and Security/Command swapped? We still use redshirt, mainly because "yellowshirt" is a mouthful and not as much fun to say.

[Zeke]

I've recommended Millennium on this site before, and I dig the Shatnerverse too (although I seriously, seriously doubt Shatner's high profile on these books reflects his contribution level). But for my money, the best Trek novel of all is The Devil's Heart by Carmen Carter. Be sure to pick that one up if you get the chance.

[Nate the Great]

Yeah, the Reeve-Stevensons put out some good work, but I'm not touching the level of Shatner's contribution.

I own Devil's Heart, and it's okay, but I'm afraid that it falls under the category of "old-fashioned Trek." Before NextGen season five, DS9, the Renaissance of Trek, etc. the canon was very different. Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise was fully supported, no one had a reason not to use the characters from the animated series in novels, Federation was fully supported, and so on. What with forteen seasons of DS9 and Voyager and four movies, the status quo of the pre-Cardassian episodes of NextGen and their supporting books have fallen into the pseudo-canon wasteland. Devil's Heart, along with another book I enjoyed at the time, Dark Mirror, has fallen by the wayside as totally incompatible. I liked Devil's Heart, but now when I read stuff like that, the nitpicking side of me has to jump in and say "that's inaccurate now! And that! So's that! Oh, and he'd never say that now! etc." Sad, really.