30th Anniversary TNG Episode Discussion Marathon

[Nate the Great]

LAL: I watch them and I can do the things they do but I will never feel the emotions. I'll never know love.
DATA: It is a limitation we must learn to accept, Lal.
LAL: Then why do you still try to emulate humans? What purpose does it serve except to remind you that you are incomplete?
DATA: I have asked myself that many times as I have struggled to be more human. Until I realised it is the struggle itself that is most important. We must strive to be more than we are, Lal. It does not matter that we will never reach our ultimate goal. The effort yields its own rewards.
LAL: You are wise, Father.
DATA: It is the difference between knowledge and experience.
LAL: I learned today that humans like to hold hands. It is a symbolic gesture of affection.

Great scene. Whether or not Data is wise is a subject for another day, although Riker sure thought so...

HAFTEL: Captain, are we talking about breaking up a family? Isn't that rather a sentimental attitude about androids?
PICARD: They're living, sentient beings. Their rights and privileges in our society have been defined. I helped define them.
HAFTEL: Yes, Captain, and I am more than willing to acknowledge that. What you must acknowledge is that Lal may be a technological step forward in the development of artificial intelligence.

My immediate response is...so? That doesn't negate their rights. He's making no argument that doesn't boil down to "I don't really think they're sentient and have rights" or "they may be sentient, but they're still a lower life form and I can make them slaves if I want to." I wonder what Captain Louvois is doing this week...

HAFTEL: She is capable of running over sixty trillion calculations per second, and you have her working as a cocktail waitress.

Again...so? There are plenty of doctoral students who have to work in restaurants to make money! Is Haftel claiming to have the right to not only own Lal but actually reprogram her and control all of her actions when he's out of sight?

HAFTEL: I'm not convinced the sort of behaviour she observes here will be a positive influence.

Again...so? Even if Haftel determines that Lal is Federation property, she wouldn't be his property. He sound's more like a grumpy dad judging his son's date than a Starfleet admiral who supposedly has experience working with people...

TROI: Come in.
(Lal enters, obviously upset)
TROI: Hello, Lal. How are you?
LAL: Troi. Admiral. Admiral. An admiral from Starfleet has come to take me away, Troi. I am scared.
TROI: You are scared, aren't you?
LAL: I feel it. How is this possible?
TROI: I don't know.
LAL: This is what it means to feel. This is what it means to feel.

Like I said on TV Tropes, this scene is a tearjerker. She's terrified, but she doesn't have the words yet to talk about it properly or dispel her fear. I'm also reminded of Doc in "Latent Image" after he killed Ensign Jetal.

HAFTEL: All the other arguments aside, there's one that is irrefutable. There are only two Soong-type androids in existence. It would be very dangerous to have you both in the same place. Especially aboard a starship. One lucky shot by a Romulan, we'd lose you both.

Again...so? They aren't the property of Starfleet yadda yadda...

HAFTEL: Captain, you are jeopardising your command and your career.
PICARD: There are times, sir, when men of good conscience cannot blindly follow orders. You acknowledge their sentience, but you ignore their personal liberties and freedom. Order a man to hand his child over to the state? Not while I am his captain.

"Sometimes I think the only reason I come here is to listen to these wonderful speeches of yours." Hehe...

HAFTEL: She won't survive much longer. There was nothing anyone could have done. We'd repolarise one pathway and another would collapse. And then another. His hands were moving faster than I could see, trying to stay ahead of each breakdown. He refused to give up. He was remarkable. It just wasn't meant to be.

"You didn't call him 'it'!"

LAL: I love you, Father.
DATA: I wish I could feel it with you.
LAL: I will feel it for both of us.

I'd make an onion ninja joke, but those are really overplayed.

DATA: I thank you for your sympathy, but she is here. Her presence so enriched my life that I could not allow her to pass into oblivion. So I incorporated her programs back into my own. I have transferred her memories to me.

Icky, morally questionable, and completely unnecessary. If they HAD to do this, at least use it to get rid of that stupid contraction thing!

The Fiver

Lal: NOOOO... I mean, yes.

I think we have another case of "first lines missing" syndrome!

Picard: You know this is going to be a big responsibility.
Data: I have prepared by reading a book by Ambassador Spock, A Logician's Guide to Baby and Child Care.
Picard: Fascinating.

Hehe.

Haftel: I'm here to take Lal.
Picard: But you'll be breaking up a family.
Haftel: Nonsense -- they're both toasters.
Picard: I hear this from everyone! Look, if you put bread in Data, you're not going to get toast!
Haftel: Do you speak from experience?
Picard: Erm, no.

Interesting mental image...

Lal: I feel sad!
Troi: I sense that something's wrong, Lal.
Lal: I feel annoyed with you.

She learns quick...

La Forge: So, she's going to be all right?
Haftel: No, unfortunately.
Troi: I knew something was wrong when I saw her wearing a red shirt today.

Security wears yellow at this time yadda yadda yadda...

Nitpicker's Guide

Actually, Phil had many of the same complaints that I did (if I copied from him it was subconscious), but in particular he points out that this would've been a great opportunity to get rid of the contraction thing, but they didn't take it.

[Nate the Great]

Marth 19th, 1990, "Sins of the Father"

Transcript
Fiver (by Marc)
Memory Alpha

The Episode

Captain's log, Stardate 43685.2 As part of an exchange programme, we're taking aboard a Klingon officer to return the recent visit of Commander Riker to the cruiser Pagh.
PICARD: We must take care that while he is with us, Commander Kurn is accorded all the rights and responsibilities due the first officer of this ship. If he should feel patronised in any way
RIKER: I'm sure we'd know. One does not patronise a Klingon warrior.

Why is Riker here? Don't tell me that the guy he temporarily replaced back in "A Matter of Honor" suffered a temporary demotion! That guy was probably recently killed in battle or on medical leave. You don't need two first officers, Riker should be on vacation or something.

KURN: I have studied all of your service records. Impressive. We shall see if you live up to your reputations.

Presuming that Klingon standards of "impressive service record" are different from Federation ones, what has the Enterprise done in battle to impress him at this point? The Romulans haven't fully made their presence known yet. Is he referring to first contact with the Borg? They had to beg Q for help!

KURN: Do you wish to speak, Acting Ensign Wesley Crusher?

Here's a question for you-how much would the Klingons respect officers that don't have official commissions yet? From what Martok said, he was stuck with being a laborer without an official commission. Wouldn't Kurn ignore Wesley unless it's to give him an order?

WESLEY: He just doesn't seem to like me. I can't do anything right for him. Every time I respond to an order he jumps down my throat. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

Klingons don't like the weak. Wesley probably isn't showing enough confidence. I can't really blame Kurn for this one.

LAFORGE: He pulled a surprise inspection in the middle of a maintenance cycle! I tried to explain it to him
RIKER: But he wouldn't listen.
LAFORGE: We're all going to be doing double shifts down there just to ready for the next inspection.

I don't think it's the first officer's perogative to pull a surprise inspection, that's the chief engineer's job. Furthermore, how much could Kurn know about the Enterprise engines to do the inspection himself? On a Klingon ship wouldn't it just be a matter of raising the standards that the chief engineer has to meet and threatening punishment if they fail.

And double shifts to get ready for an inspection? Geordi is that far behind? I find this dubious.

RIKER: This is not a Klingon ship, sir.
KURN: No, Commander, it is not. If it were a Klingon ship, I would have killed you for offering your suggestion.

On the one hand I can understand Kurn's position: on a Klingon ship nobody criticizes you except someone of higher rank. On the other hand, on a Klingon ship nobody would make an unsolicited criticism in the first place! In other words, lighten up, Kurn!

KURN: How long has the bird been dead? It appears to have been lying in the sun for quite some time.
LAFORGE: It's not dead, it's been replicated. You do understand that we cook most of our foods.
KURN: Ah, yes. I was told to prepare for that. I shall try some of your burned replicated bird meat.

I'm disturbed at the notion that for Klingons "any amount of cooking of meat=burned meat." You can't tell me that Klingons never cook meat. That's absurd. SF Debris once listed the reasons why we cook meat, I believe in the review for this episode. It's enough to say that while I can understand a Klingon being ready to eat meat raw if that's all that's available during a hunt, they still have scientists who would tell them that cooked meat can be converted into energy by the body more efficiently. Plus there are many mentions of Klingon cooked dishes that include blood or other organs, why is this different?

PICARD: [Caviar is] A delicacy from the Caspian Sea on Earth. It's a favourite of mine. Our replicator's never done it justice.

Would the writers STOP IT with the "replicators can't make anything that tastes like the real thing" gag? PLEASE! It gets more nonsensical every time. I'll forgive such jokes in TOS when replicators were in their infancy, but it's been over a hundred years and this ship has the largest mobile computer in the known galaxy! If a given food can't be perfectly replicated, it shouldn't be available as a replicated food in the first place.

KURN: I never kill anyone at the supper table, Mister La Forge.

Why not? Is this supposed to be a joke?

CRUSHER: Don't you like it, Commander?
KURN: Our food has much more taste to it.

Okay, some people like rare steaks, but the Klingon diet is more than meat, we've seen it. This conversation has gone on way too long, we get the point! Kurn doesn't like the food and Worf does, so Kurn looks down on Worf.

KURN: This entire ship seems built on comfort, relaxation, being at ease. It is not the ship of a warrior, not the ship of a Klingon.

I get that Kurn is baiting Worf, but anyone else hearing this would conclude that Kurn is xenophobic, which wouldn't reflect well on him.

KURN: No. Much more. You are the eldest son. The challenge is yours to make.
WORF: Challenge?
KURN: The Klingon High Council has judged our father a traitor to the Empire.

I find this odd. Kurn has just dropped the bombshell about being Worf's brother, and before they can even properly reconcile Kurn drops this bombshell. Worf should've had a scene, probably with Troi, to process this. And he should've told Kurn to go to Ten Forward to wait for him, maybe order a prune juice while he was at it. I would've liked to have seen Guinan's reaction to Kurn.

PICARD: We're changing course. Set coordinates for the First City of the Klingon Imperial Empire.

No, you're setting course for Qo'noS. Picard's order would only make sense if you're already in orbit and are taking a shuttle down. I suddenly wonder if the First City has a landing pad large enough for Voyager...

DURAS: You claim a birthright you have forsaken?
WORF: I have not forsaken my heritage. I am Klingon. My heart is of this world. My blood is as yours.
DURAS: Yet you come to us wearing a child's uniform.

A good point. Worf isn't here on Starfleet business, so why isn't he wearing Klingon clothes?

(Duras tears off Worf's baldric)
DURAS: You will not wear the emblems of our people.

I'm not sure Duras has the authority to do that. In fact this seems like duel challenge material...

K'MPEC: If you leave before the Mek'ba, no shame will come on you. Return to your ship. Go back to your life. The challenge will be forgotten.

But Worf wouldn't be let back into the Empire ever. I don't think that Worf considers this an acceptable solution.

RIKER: What Federation starship was closest to Khitomer at the time of the attack?
DATA: The USS Intrepid was the first ship on the scene, sir.

This is the NCC-38907, Excelsior class. There have been many Intrepids in Starfleet history, but they don't use the letter addendum system, just different registry numbers.

PICARD: jIlajneS. ghIj qet jaghmeyjaj.

"I accept with honor. May your enemies run with fear."

WORF: tlhIH ghIj jIHyoj.
K'MPEC: biHnuch.

"I fear your judgement." "Coward."

The Fiver

Kurn: Worf, I am your long-lost younger brother.
Worf: Why did you insult me with your patronizing behaviour?
Kurn: I wanted to test your character. This table you smashed with your fist proves that your heart is truly Klingon.
Worf: I must confess that I picked up this habit from my long-lost girlfriend.
Kurn: Ah! Then she too must be Klingon!
Worf: Sufficiently.

Ha ha. I wonder if Kurn would've liked K'ehlyr.

Duras: If I cannot turn you, then perhaps my sisters will. Here -- look at their photograph!
Kurn: Nice try...but it takes more than a little cleavage to distract a Kling--GAK!
Duras: Heheheh.

Kurn's not dead. Don't we use "Ack!" for wounded and "Gak!" for dead?

Worf: To preserve the peace within the Empire, I will accept discommendation.
Picard: Discommendation? What does that mean?
Worf: There is no greater shame in Klingon society. The closest human equivalent is being forced to relinquish the key to the executive washroom.

Ha.

Nitpicker's Guide

* Phil asks why they would replicate meat with the bones instead of just the meat.
* Kahlest mentions the Emperor when there isn't one at this point. The Kahless clone won't exist for several years.

[Zeke]

I've always appreciated how Marc used the end of this fiver to set up a running gag from my earlier "Redemption" fiver. (Anybody who reads this site "in order" probably ends up very confused...)

[Flying Gremlin]

On the issue of the replicator, I think the point they're trying to get across is that there's no variation for personal tastes. The computer may be able to make a pie perfectly ten out of ten times, but the pie would be just the same pie. A home-cooked pie takes into account palette preference and ingredient selection - if baking an apple pie, for example, what apples did you use, did you grind the cinnamon yourself, are you using real vanilla beans or an artificial extract, how much salt did you add, did you add one pinch or two of nutmeg.

[Nate the Great]

That doesn't fly. On numerous occasions the computer has given the option of dozens of variations for a given food. Like I've said before, the problem is the writer's inability to grasp that it would be child's play to program the computer such that when Picard asks for soup, the replicator makes soup according to Picard's presets, etc.


Whenever someone complains about replicated food, it's not just the taste, but the whole experience. The smell is off, the texture is off, the "mouthfeel" is off, etc.


Notice that you don't see this problem with the food slots in TOS. They didn't create alcohol because the technology wasn't good enough yet.

[Flying Gremlin]

Originally Posted by Nate the Great

Notice that you don't see this problem with the food slots in TOS. They didn't create alcohol because the technology wasn't good enough yet.

Probably because they were drunk all the time.

[NAHTMMM]

Lal: They keep saying, "Your daddy is a walking thesaurus."
Data: Those little punks, rapscallions, miscreants, delinquents....

This one always gets me.

[Flying Gremlin]

Originally Posted by Nate the Great

That doesn't fly. On numerous occasions the computer has given the option of dozens of variations for a given food. Like I've said before, the problem is the writer's inability to grasp that it would be child's play to program the computer such that when Picard asks for soup, the replicator makes soup according to Picard's presets, etc.

Whenever someone complains about replicated food, it's not just the taste, but the whole experience. The smell is off, the texture is off, the "mouthfeel" is off, etc.

Dozens of variations... if the user of the replicator cares to figure them out. Some might just like to whine and not actually care to figure out how to use it. See also: Janeway's burned meatloaf from the replicator.

It also might be a little bit of atmospheric difference. To use a real world example, the reason why there's so many jokes about airplane food is that pressurized cabins make food taste blander and less textured. Considering space travel is the same, the writers could be interpreting replicator food as the 24th century equivalent of airplane food. There could be some logic to it, but it may be horse hockey.

[Nate the Great]

Regarding Janeway's burnt meatloaf, I'd assume that it was a failed customization. There must be a department at Starfleet Headquarters for upgrading the replicator menu. Each selection must be perfected for use with standard equipment using standard replicator base material (no Soylent Green jokes, please). If Janeway tries to modify the base recipe without fully considering the interactions (the virtual humidity, heat, etc.), disaster could result.