Nemesis (spoilers) - Finally saw it

[Sa'ar Chasm]

[color=#000000ost_uid0]I never read the thread when it was first posted, and it's since been deleted.

Well, this movie wasn't *quite* as bad as I thought it would be. Â It certainly wasn't as horrible as Insufficient, although it wasn't in the league of First Contact, either. Â I'l organise my thoughts by character.

Picard: Who was this guy? Â Although it was interesting to see the jovial, good natured best man at the wedding, the macho idiot driving the dune buggy around was a complete stranger. Â He must still be feeling the effects of the fountain of youth from the last move. Â Speaking of dune buggies, there were two words that were never mentioned while they were blowing up pre-warp aliens: Prime Directive.

Riker: Why does the tall man have a furry face? Â And when did the trouble and strife let him grow the beard back? Â By the way, the song you were trying to remember is Pop Goes The Weasel.

Data: He sings. Â Again. Â And then explodes. Â There are several hours of movie in between those two events.

Worf: Poor guy got used as comic relief, filling the Gimli Role. Â He still can't hit anything with a phaser. Â He should stick to martial arts; he's murder with a mek'leth or just his bare hands. Isn't he supposed to be the Federation ambassador to Cronos at this point? Â Why's he wearing Starfleet fatigues? Â I can understand him being at the wedding, but serving on the bridge? Â Possibly there's a scene which explains it that didn't make the Director's Cut. Â I have no idea which version I watched.

Geordi: He seems to have been relegated to Sensor Officer. Â He didn't spew any engineering-related technobabble at all; it was all about androids.

Troi: She actually did something useful. Â I think her current hairstyle is much more attractive than that horrible curly bun she was sporting around the fifth season. I find her hotter now at 40+ than I did when she was in her 30s.

Dr. Crusher: Was she even in this movie? She is beginning to show the effects of age.

Wes: Poor old Wil got jerked around by Berman regarding whether his scene was going to be included. Â Wil never did tell me how Wes appeared at the wedding.

Janeway: *Admiral* Janeway? Â They promoted her over Picard? Â Great Bird, why?

Shinzon and the Remans: Interesting character, although his dramatic scenes with Picard tended to be one-note themes, saying the same thing over and over and over again. Â "You're me!" Â "No, you're me." Â "Be nice!" Â "Be evil!" Â Also, I don't think any Trek fan expected the other Romulan homeworld to be inhabited by a slave race of non-Romulans. Â It suppose the Remans could be a race the proto-Romulans conquered when they settled the system after leaving Vulcan, but all references to "the twin homeworlds" made it seem that both were populated by the same race.

Then again, maybe it was all clever Romulan disinformation.

They never adequately explained just *how* the Romulans got Picard's DNA, when they got it, how old Shinzon is, why the Romulans cared about a relatively minor starship captain who'd had his previous command shot out from under him, and just where in the hell they found Dr. Soong's protoprototype android and why nobody ever mentioned it before, Dr. S. included.

Space battle: I think this movie contained the first-ever references to ventral and dorsal shields. Â It was nice to finally see a space battle fought in three-dimensional space, rather than a two-dimensional plane with stars. Â One wonders, though, why the Reman ships had Earth names like Scimitar and Scorpion. Â Must be the Universal Translator.[/colorost_uid0]

[Nan]

[color=#000000ost_uid0]The bulk of your questions could be answered by this fake quote from Berman and Braga:

[iost_uid0]"Con-tin-yu-wi-dy? What's that?"
"Continuity is futile."[/iost_uid0][/colorost_uid0]

[Michiel]

[color=#000000ost_uid0]B4 was cool. [/colorost_uid0]

[Nan]

[color=#000000ost_uid0]Killing off a major character while replacing him with a very similar character played by the same actor kind of lacks the emotional resonance of actually killing off the actual character entirely.[/colorost_uid0]

[Michiel]

[color=#000000ost_uid0]Are we expecting any more TNG movies?[/colorost_uid0]

[Zeke]

[color=#000000ost_uid0]Nan: This is the second time I've heard you blame B&B for what you didn't like about Nemesis, and it doesn't make any more sense this time. Braga wasn't even involved; Berman was the producer, but not the writer. And not very many of Sa'ar's comments had to do with continuity, either.

As for Wheaton getting "jerked around by Berman," that's not how his blog told it....[/colorost_uid0]

[Sa'ar Chasm]

[color=#000000ost_uid0][quoteost_uid0]As for Wheaton getting "jerked around by Berman," that's not how his blog told it....[/quoteost_uid0]

My memory has a few bad sectors. This is what I'm remembering (December 9th, second entry "Sadtimes," language warning).

This is probably what Zeke's referring to (August 14th, no bad language).[/colorost_uid0]

[Zeke]

[color=#000000ost_uid0]Ouch. I hadn't read the post you linked there, and now that I've seen it, I feel really bad for WW. I don't think this was any kind of direct malice on Berman's part (how many executive producers write up the invite lists themselves?), but he was at the very least careless in not checking that Wheaton would be invited after assuring him he would be. Objection withdrawn. (This time. )[/colorost_uid0]

[Nan]

[color=#000000ost_uid0]Actually, I wasn't mentioning Braga because of Nemesis, but recent Trek in general. Berman, however, being the exec, also tends not to mind "fudging" things.

I'm not on the Braga-bashing wagon, just noting specifics in what I was hoping was a humourous fashion. Apparently not as humourous as I had hoped.

I suppose I could have made comments about the "scientific advisor", but that's already been done by one of the former staff on the show.

And I have forgotten the rules of film hierarchy, but the executive producer is the one who naysays or okays the script, at least in television (which is where the complaint is directed). Plus, "producer" is often used as a title for someone who is just a senior writer.

Justification-o-meter rating for YABBesque comment: 50/100, or "whiny fan girl."[/colorost_uid0]

[Tate]

[color=#000000ost_uid0][quoteost_uid0="Sa'ar Chasm"]Also, I don't think any Trek fan expected the other Romulan homeworld to be inhabited by a slave race of non-Romulans. Â It suppose the Remans could be a race the proto-Romulans conquered when they settled the system after leaving Vulcan, but all references to "the twin homeworlds" made it seem that both were populated by the same race.

Then again, maybe it was all clever Romulan disinformation.[/quoteost_uid0]

I think that the Remans [iost_uid0]are[/iost_uid0] Romulans, with warped appearances from living in such a harsh environment. Look at Shinzon; he looks [iost_uid0]way[/iost_uid0] different from Picard and he's only lived on Remus a few decades, not the hundreds of years the Remans (or their ancestors) probably have.

I don't have any evidence to support this theory (besides the Remans' pointed ears), but I haven't seen anything to the contrary either.[/colorost_uid0]

[Saxamaphone]

[color=#000000ost_uid0]Tate - although you make a valid point, I doubt evolution, especially on such a magnitude would have taken place in such short of time. Although Shinzon did change, that was an individual change and not a mutation on the genetic level.

Unfortunatly, I think the movie refers to them as an offshoot race.[/colorost_uid0]

[catalina_marina]

[color=#000000ost_uid0]Such short a time? As far as I know, they've lived there for centuries. The people on Terra Nova lived there for less time, but they mutated a lot in that time. That was because of the so-called "Poison Rain", but something like that might have happened to the Remans as well.[/colorost_uid0]

[Saxamaphone]

[color=#000000ost_uid0]Hmm, true - but then again, I'm a hardcore nitpicker at heart

Trek has constantly bended the rules of science. Why? It's a show, and entertaining So I usually keep the nitpicks to myself [/colorost_uid0]

[ijdgaf]

[color=#000000ost_uid0]The main problem with the movie I thought, was simply how boring it was.

Jeez, I would have fallen asleep if I hadn't cared about the franchise enough to watch it. Up to the crash (and no, it doesn't take those to make me interested in a movie), it was boring. And the crash was simply pretty and mildly intense (at least, moreso than the rest of the flick).

It should have been smarter and more original. If it had stepped a foot into new territory, perhaps it might have succeded better. But as it is now, it's a poor remake of a movie which worked for reasons Baird (sp?) and Logan didn't factor in at all.[/colorost_uid0]

[Sa'ar Chasm]

[color=#000000ost_uid0][quoteost_uid0]to the crash (and no, it doesn't take those to make me interested in a movie), it was boring.[/quoteost_uid0]

I want to know how Shinzon managed to extricate his ship from the Enterprise instead of simply dragging it along. Physics takes a holiday.[/colorost_uid0]

[Saxamaphone]

[color=#000000ost_uid0]Physics has an uncanny way of taking holidays in films and TV.

I thought it was boring too, the plot was thin, and as much as they attempted to - the character development was lacking. They grounded themselves in Star Trek lore, and didn't take the time to re-establish the characters, or just establish them. Oh well.[/colorost_uid0]

[Zeke]

[quoteost_uid0="Nan"][color=#000000ost_uid0]Actually, I wasn't mentioning Braga because of Nemesis, but recent Trek in general.[/colorost_uid0][/quoteost_uid0]
[color=#000000ost_uid0]My mistake -- I think it's understandable, though, since you said that "quote" answered the bulk of Sa'ar's questions.

[quoteost_uid0]Berman, however, being the exec, also tends not to mind "fudging" things.[/quoteost_uid0]

We probably shouldn't get into the [iost_uid0]Enterprise[/iost_uid0] continuity debate. Could get messy.

[quoteost_uid0]I suppose I could have made comments about the "scientific advisor", but that's already been done by one of the former staff on the show.[/quoteost_uid0]

What scares me is that one of the current staff on the show used to [iost_uid0]be[/iost_uid0] science advisor -- a title that should have been revoked the moment he submitted "Demon."

[quoteost_uid0]And I have forgotten the rules of film hierarchy, but the executive producer is the one who naysays or okays the script, at least in television (which is where the complaint is directed). Plus, "producer" is often used as a title for someone who is just a senior writer.[/quoteost_uid0]

Oh, I'm not saying RB has no responsibility for script problems. I just find it odd that almost no one seems to give Logan any responsibility for them.

Sorry to be so harsh with you, Nan -- you were just the one who happened to hit one of my Trek hot buttons this time. And to prove I'm not a humourless basher-basher, let it be known far and wide that I found this Trek BBS post hilarious.

YABB?[/colorost_uid0]

[Derek]

[color=#000000ost_uid0]Just to say something good about Nemesis, I liked the way the relationships were more like I remembered them from the series. It was nice to actually see Data and Geordi talk to each other. (Did they even do that once in FC or INS?)[/colorost_uid0]

[Zeke]

[color=#000000ost_uid0]Does it count if only Data talks? "Hello, Geordi. I seem to be missing several memory engrams. ...There they are."

By the way, I [iost_uid0]loved[/iost_uid0] ST:N, so no one else who did need feel alone.[/colorost_uid0]

[Sa'ar Chasm]

[color=#000000ost_uid0][quoteost_uid0]And to prove I'm not a humourless basher-basher,[/quoteost_uid0]

Zeke? Humourless?[/colorost_uid0]