The Five-Minute Forums

The Five-Minute Forums (http://www.fiveminute.net/forums/index.php)
-   Science Fiction (http://www.fiveminute.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=9)
-   -   Question for Who fans -- Another Who Thread (http://www.fiveminute.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1076)

Derek 05-20-2006 03:08 PM

Question for Who fans -- Another Who Thread
 
I've been watching the Doctor Who run on SciFi, and I'm enjoying it. I also wasted an incredible amount of time reading the Monitor Duty site Zeke linked to and so I at least have some vague idea of what happened to previous Doctors.

But there's one thing I don't understand: Are there any other timelords still around? The Doctor has made comments that he's the only one left. I think in the episode "Dalek" he said he's the only one. So is that true? Are the time lords wiped out? Is the Doctor the only one left standing? What about the Master?

I just watched "Boom Town," so I'd appreciate it if anyone answering can curb any major spoilers past that point (other than to say, "yes, there are more timelords").

Thanks.

Lostoyannaya 05-20-2006 08:08 PM

I was new to Who that series too, and when I asked my parents (long time Whoers) they said there was some kind of intergalactic war that wiped out all of the TimeLords, so it does look like they're all gone. I don't know what series this occurred in, though...

~~Lostoyannaya :wink:

Burt 05-20-2006 10:04 PM

The War was never seen, in any of the Who shows. The last time who was around, the movie, they said nothing about a war between the time lords and Daleks. In fact, the Daleks were seen in the first part of the movie (Or heard). I'm guessing the war happened between the Doctors 8th (Paul McGann) and 9th (Eccleston) lives. He even talks about being in a new body in the first episode, so the war might have been why he regenerated.
The Master was supposed to have been killed in the doctor who movie. But I'm guessing he'll still be back.
There was another evil Time Lord(Or lady) called 'The Rani'. Bit of an evil old cow she was too.
Also one of the Doctors old companions Romana (another Time lady) left to stay in a another part of space called 'E-space' with the first K-9. I guessing she would still be alive, but the show hasn't spoken about her.
I'm certain the show will have other Time lords in it sooner or later.
Well, I mean I hope!

Scooter 05-21-2006 07:01 AM

The short answer is, not at the moment.

So -- as you noted, according to "Dalek" and a later episode, there was a Time War between the Daleks and the Time Lords which is supposed to have destroyed both races. The implication is that the Doctor was deeply involved in these events and the Ninth Doctor feels responsible for the slaughter. This occurred off screen, between the events of the movie and "Rose," and *may* have caused his regeneration into the Ninth Doctor (nothing canonical is known about this regeneration). Anyway there is a loooot of stuff that has not yet been revealed about the Time War, I'm thinking, especially the precise nature of the Doctor's role and how all the Time Lords got killed. (Maybe the Doctor just thinks they were!)

The Time War had vast repurcussions across space and time (marooning the Gelth, for example). In a new series two episode the Doctor says he "could stop the war" if he had the power being offered him, which leads some to think the Time War is still ongoing. I think it's a lot more likely that the Doctor means he would try to reverse the annihilation of the Time Lords if he could.

However, considering we have Daleks surviving the Time War after all, both isolated escapees ("Dalek") and ... other things, it seems likely as Burt said that random Time Lords will resurface, perhaps even a government in exile. Will this happen? Probably not for a long time. The producers of the new series are getting a lot of mileage out of the Doctor being alone and unique in the universe, the last Time Lord. They're not stupid enough to muck that up anytime soon.

There *are* three Time Lords other than the Doctor from the classic series that are certain to have been off of Gallifrey at the time of the Time War: Romana (last seen wandering around E-Space), the Master (last seen in the movie), and the Rani (last seen in "Time and the Rani," assuming you don't count the charity special "Dimensions in Time"). And yeah, the Master "died" in the movie, but then he "died" in "Planet of Fire" too. Actually he's more likely to have survived what we see in the movie -- he's just sucked into the Eye of Harmony, so maybe the Eye just sort of put him on ice. There's some speculation that the Master is the classic villain to be resurrected in series three, after the Daleks and the Cybermen. But that's just speculation.

I think a lot of fans feel that the Gallifrey stuff was great but it also took away a lot of the mystery about the character of the Doctor, starting from when it first came up at the end of the Second Doctor's time. I think Russell Davies and the others are in sync with that feeling -- that's probably why they killed off Gallifrey in the first place.

Hejira 05-21-2006 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scooter
The producers of the new series are getting a lot of mileage out of the Doctor being alone and unique in the universe, the last Time Lord. They're not stupid enough to muck that up anytime soon.

I'm just quoting this part for historical purposes. You know, just in case the producers turn out to be human after all.

Zeke 05-21-2006 08:45 AM

I was gonna leave this to the more qualified people, but to my surprise, they didn't bring up what I read about the other day. There's reason to believe someone else is out there, if not necessarily a Time Lord. Why? In the 2006 Doctor Who Annual, there was an article by Russell Davies himself called "Meet the Doctor," which gave a little information about the Great Time War. The final paragraph was this: "And far away, across the universe, on the planet Crafe Tec Heydra, one side of a mountain carries carvings and hieroglyphs, crude representations of an invisible War. The artwork shows two races clashing, one metal, one flesh; a fearsome explosion; and a solitary survivor walking from the wreckage. Solitary? Perhaps not. Under this figure, a phrase has been scratched in the stone, which translates as: you are not alone..."

Scooter 05-21-2006 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hejira
You know, just in case the producers turn out to be human after all.

lol. It's true I tend to be unduly optimistic when it comes to the producers' ability to resist temptation. After all, the new series had only gotten 13 episodes in before they had a Rose/Doctor kiss... Then another one two episodes later... (Of course, that one wasn't really Rose, so it's okay.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke
Under this figure, a phrase has been scratched in the stone, which translates as: you are not alone..."

Wow, I did not see this. Fascinating and cryptic. Reminds me of the Ezekiel storyline from Amazing Spider-Man. Not necessarily a Time Lord, though -- could even be a reference to Rose, who is really being made a partner in the Doctor's labors in the new series -- but it definitely opens the door to something else.

Burt 05-21-2006 06:21 PM

Yeah, I saw that too. I was surprised to see a juicy piece of info like that in an Childrens Annual. I was kinda of wary to trust it. But then, in that case, why would they put it in there in the first place if it wasn't for a reason? And as you said, it was written by Russell Davies too.
Weird. Time will tell I guess.
(Pun not intended)

Lostoyannaya 05-21-2006 07:49 PM

According to reliable sources of the people around me, Billie Piper said in an interview that she'd like to be the next Dr. Who. But whether-or-not she said this as just a humorous thing or whether she meant it I couldn't determine. And it doesn't look like it's going to happen anytime soon - David Tennant has already signed up for another series.

~~Lostoyannaya :wink:

PointyHairedJedi 05-22-2006 12:54 PM

The last of the eighth Doctor BBC novels (which I've bought but not read), The Gallifrey Chronicles, covers the destruction of the Time Lords, but I don't know how well it fits in with the new series.

Scooter 05-23-2006 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PointyHairedJedi
The last of the eighth Doctor BBC novels (which I've bought but not read), The Gallifrey Chronicles, covers the destruction of the Time Lords, but I don't know how well it fits in with the new series.

True and I haven;t forgotten that, but I am under the impression that the mythology of the Time War is very different between the novels and the new series. I haven't read them either, though, so if you do, let us know.

Hejira 05-24-2006 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lostoyannaya
According to reliable sources of the people around me, Billie Piper said in an interview that she'd like to be the next Dr. Who. But whether-or-not she said this as just a humorous thing or whether she meant it I couldn't determine.

But that means the Doctor kissed...

...the Doctor. :shock:

I'm not sure if it's more disgusting than pathetic or the other way around.

Zeke 05-24-2006 02:10 AM

Could have been worse. He could have kissed Rose -- wait.

Okay, he could have kissed J-- no.

Intimate show these days, isn't it?

Scooter 05-24-2006 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke
Could have been worse. He could have kissed Rose -- wait.

Okay, he could have kissed J-- no.

Intimate show these days, isn't it?

At least the Doctor didn't kiss Sarah Jane. That would have been weird. The kissing continuity between new and classic series has been maintained!

Burt 05-24-2006 01:51 PM

I'm just glad he didn't kiss K-9. He's a dog. It's just not right, folks.


On that subject, I just brough a bunch of Doctor Who crap! A huge remote control Dalek, that talks and moves and everything! So far it's not tried to kill me and take over the house (though it's only a matter of time).
But it it does, I'll have my 'Huge remote controled K-9' to protect me!

Yes ladies and gentlemen...I am 22.

PointyHairedJedi 05-26-2006 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burt
I'm just glad he didn't kiss K-9. He's a dog. It's just not right, folks.

I'm having odd urges to go and see if there's any fanfic out there now.

Damn you. Damn you.

Quote:

Yes ladies and gentlemen...I am 22.
I'm twenty... and very jealous indeed. :P

e of pi 05-27-2006 12:32 AM

I'm jealous. You two are old enough to get your pilot licenses! I can't even fly solo for another year.

Burt 05-27-2006 12:33 AM

I....Whoandwhat?

Chancellor Valium 06-01-2006 04:28 PM

Stop making me feel old! And help me out of this chair...my legs aren't what they used to be!

Official answer: Unknown.

Actually, we know next to nothing about the Last Great Time War, but the facts as they stand revealed are:

1) The first act of the War (According to RTD) was the sending of the Doctor back in time to avert or alter the creation of the Daleks. (See "Genesis of the Daleks").

2) Some time later, the Daleks declared war.

3) The Doctor destroyed Skaro as part of the War (according to RTD, again).

4) The war ravaged causality.

5) Much of what happened in the Doctor's prime universe seems to have been undone (it can be surmised, anyway - Ravalox and so forth).

6) Other races were drawn in, but

7) The War was primarily between the Time Lords of Gallifrey and the Daleks.

8) The Autons were also involved.

9) The War was ended by the Doctor destroying both Gallifrey, the entire of the Time Lord race, and the entire Dalek race and fleet (drawn together from various sources).

10)The Doctor believes himself to be the last of his kind, and the TARDIS likewise.

11) The end of the Time War has meant that causality is much more immutable than it used to be.

At least, that's all I can think of. Russell T. Davies has also implied that the Last Great Time War is not related to the War In Heaven against the Unknown Enemy (and Faction Paradox).

Where and if Faction Paradox are involved is unknown, but due to the temporal nature of the war, the involvement of the inhabitants of the Eleven Day Empire seems likely.

Scooter 06-01-2006 07:50 PM

Thanks, CV. This is a helpful rundown.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chancellor Valium
3) The Doctor destroyed Skaro as part of the War (according to RTD, again).

Does this not refer to the events in "Remembrance of the Daleks"?

Burt 06-01-2006 07:54 PM

Quote:

3) The Doctor destroyed Skaro as part of the War (according to RTD, again).
I think this happens in 'Remembrance of the Daleks'. Though, I think the doctor says it will happen in the future (usings the 'Hand of Omega') Maybe RTD's changed it again? Had the Doctor finish them off quicker?

Chancellor Valium 06-02-2006 06:14 PM

Yes, this does refer to "Remembrance of the Daleks". According to RTD, this is one battle during the Time War.

Scooter 06-02-2006 09:11 PM

Sounds like the whole Doctor/Dalek history is being retconned into the Time War. Next I'll expect to hear that the whole thing came down to some unforgivable Dalek insult inadvertently uttered by Morton Dill.

PointyHairedJedi 06-04-2006 11:02 AM

Look, if they're going to use appendages that look so obviously like plungers, then there are going to be toilet jokes. Frankly they were just setting themselves up for that one fine style.

Zeke 06-07-2006 07:18 AM

I have a Who question too. I haven't been able to get my hands on the first two regular Tenth Doctor episodes, just the ones after. Are the first two standalone enough that I can go ahead and watch the others, or is it important that I see them first?

Lostoyannaya 06-07-2006 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke
I have a Who question too. I haven't been able to get my hands on the first two regular Tenth Doctor episodes, just the ones after. Are the first two standalone enough that I can go ahead and watch the others, or is it important that I see them first?

So you haven't seen New Earth or Tooth and Claw? The second one is pretty important as it sheds some light on the Torchwood canon that is to be used later on in the series (me thinks). The first one is just a further introduction to the Doctor's new personality following The Christmas Invasion.

If you have Bit Torrent, have you tried TorrentSpy? The search engine's a bit rubbish: if you type in "Who" you just get MP3s from the band; if you type in "Dr. Who" you get nothing, if you type in "Doctor Who", you get a few crappy results. I always try to type in the episode titles, that seems to work.

YouTube seems to have New Earth loaded up in small bits - I've managed to find a parts 2, 3, 4, and a "final part", but a part 1 might be on later pages. (Also a rubbish search engine in some cases). However it does seem to have an entire episode collection for Tooth and Claw. (Search results T&C and NE).

Hope this helps!

~~Lostoyannaya :D

Scooter 06-07-2006 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke
I have a Who question too. I haven't been able to get my hands on the first two regular Tenth Doctor episodes, just the ones after. Are the first two standalone enough that I can go ahead and watch the others, or is it important that I see them first?

The short answer is yes, they are standalone -- the first two episodes don't set up anything that affects the rst of the season as I've seen it so far (but I've only seen up through Idiot's Lantern). Most of the Tenth Doctor characterization you need was done in Christmas Invasion. The Torchwood set-up in episode 2 is important for -- well, for Torchwood set-up, but if that comes into play at all in series 2 (as opposed to the separate series of Torchwood) I'm willing to bet that it will affect only the last few episodes, the way that all the "Bad Wolf" setup mainly affected the last two episodes last season.

And you do need to see School Reunion, Girl in the Fireplace, and the Cybermen episodes. (Those four hang together mainly because it's a story arc for one of the recurring characters.)

...plus in the Cybermen episodes you get two Goblet of Fire actors for the price of one... :)

Zeke 06-07-2006 02:38 PM

Thanks, you two.

Quote:

If you have Bit Torrent --
Oh, just using BitTorrent would be easy. If finding TV episodes online were duck hunting, using BitTorrent would be buying a duck at the pet store. Unfortunately, my residence network is particularly strict about BT. I can usually use Kazaa and Soulseek without trouble, but BT clients show up on the network as some kind of illegal access ("scanning," they call it). Twice I've taken the risk and been briefly disconnected. If it happens a third time, they're required to inspect my computer before they can reconnect me, something I'd definitely like to avoid.

Now, I do have access to something extremely useful which I won't go into detail about. Suffice to say it's an excellent source most of the time, but involves only a couple hundred people, so if none of them have what I'm looking for, I'm out of luck. And unfortunately, nobody seems to have those two Who episodes, just the later ones. They're sure to show up eventually; I just needed to know if I could go ahead and watch the ones I have. That YouTube stuff sounds promising, so I'll check it out.

By the way, the best BT client I've ever used is BitComet. Integrated browser and everything -- well worth trying.

Sa'ar Chasm 06-07-2006 03:12 PM

Quote:

Look, if they're going to use appendages that look so obviously like plungers, then there are going to be toilet jokes. Frankly they were just setting themselves up for that one fine style.
Are the Daleks robots, or are there supposed to be lifeforms inside the pepperpots? I caught a few First Doctor episodes on YTV way back when, and I remember seeing the Doctor flip back the cupola of one and amuse himself playing with the toilet plunger. In real world terms, he was playing in the prop, but as far as the Doctorverse goes, just what was he doing? Occupying an empty shell while the bioform was elsewhere, or did he scoop out the mechanical guts and brain in order to hide in it?

Am I making myself perfectly clear?

Zeke 06-07-2006 03:15 PM

They're basically squid.

Burt 06-07-2006 04:06 PM

Yeah. They were a race called the 'Kaleds'. They were at war with the 'Thals'. The war involved Biological and chemical weapons which would mutate the Kaleds. So Davros (A baddie Scientist) Made ....The Daleks! (Notice the name...Kaleds...Daleks?) It was suppose to be a travel machine to just carry the Kaled people in their new form, but he made it so they would have no pity or anything and lots of firepower. Basicly your standard wacko.
So now the Daleks are these blobby thing that can, it seems, kill on their own, sometimes. Or as the doctor puts it "Little green blobs in bonded polycarbide armour".

Scooter 06-08-2006 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sa'ar Chasm
Are the Daleks robots, or are there supposed to be lifeforms inside the pepperpots?

As the Ninth Doctor said in "Dalek", the exterior casing is basically "battle armo[u]r" and the real Dalek is the mutant squid inside.

PointyHairedJedi 06-08-2006 10:43 PM

"Tooth and Claw" you might want to watch, Zeke, but basically the gist of the stuff you want to know is - Torchwood has been around for a wee while. I also found in an interesting episode in contrast to the BBC novel Empire of Death in which the Doctor and Queen Victoria manage to get on rather better. I was a little disappointed that there wasn't even the slightest hint of a mention of it, but c'est la vie.

I just want to say, even with as many SF clichés as it uses, "The Impossible Planet" is going to blow your collective socks off. It is in every sense a classic Who adventure, the kind of thing that makes you fall in love with the series all over again.

Burt 06-08-2006 10:48 PM

Quote:

I just want to say, even with as many SF clichés as it uses, "The Impossible Planet" is going to blow your collective socks off. It is in every sense a classic Who adventure, the kind of thing that makes you fall in love with the series all over again.
I feel the exact same way! But for some reason, everyone I seem to talk to, friends and family, etc, all seem to just say, 'okish...not that good..'
I can't explain it. I thought it ROCKED. ahem..
Sorry for using that word.

PointyHairedJedi 06-08-2006 10:58 PM

They are heathens, and as painful as it is you must excommunicate them at once.

Scooter 06-11-2006 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PointyHairedJedi
I just want to say, even with as many SF clichés as it uses, "The Impossible Planet" is going to blow your collective socks off. It is in every sense a classic Who adventure, the kind of thing that makes you fall in love with the series all over again.

I thought "Impossible Planet" was fantastic. Even setting aside the Satan mythological stuff (how awesome was it of them to get the voice of Sutekh!), this episode has genuine suspense and a sense of scale that many of the new series episodes have lacked.

Chancellor Valium 06-11-2006 01:21 PM

Unfortunately, "The Satan Pit" was rather an anticlimax (at least, I felt so...)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sa'ar Chasm
Are the Daleks robots, or are there supposed to be lifeforms inside the pepperpots? I caught a few First Doctor episodes on YTV way back when, and I remember seeing the Doctor flip back the cupola of one and amuse himself playing with the toilet plunger. In real world terms, he was playing in the prop, but as far as the Doctorverse goes, just what was he doing? Occupying an empty shell while the bioform was elsewhere, or did he scoop out the mechanical guts and brain in order to hide in it?

Am I making myself perfectly clear?

Ahh, no, that was just the exterior, which was in a museum in a parallel universe (the TARDIS jumped a time track, IIRC). The story is called "The Space Museum" for the record, and there are some very amusing interrogation scenes.

@Z: The first two eps were a bit weak, IMO. Certainly compared to the rest of this season.

Sa'ar Chasm 06-11-2006 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chancellor Valium
. The story is called "The Space Museum" for the record, and there are some very amusing interrogation scenes.

Is that the one where they're using the mind-probe-thingie to call images from the Doctor's mind?

Interrogator: How did you get here?
Doctor's mind: (thinks of a penny-farthing)

PointyHairedJedi 06-11-2006 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chancellor Valium
Unfortunately, "The Satan Pit" was rather an anticlimax (at least, I felt so...)

I didn't see it as being so. Okay, so perhaps it was obvious that they weren't all going to die, but I felt it had a nice degree of introspection to it as a counterbalance to all that running away from monsters business.

Burt 06-12-2006 11:14 PM

I did like the end of satan pit. The TARDIS pulling along another ship was kinda cool, if however, rather new. Never seem it do that before!! Not that it shouldn't be able to, mind you. It can travel through time, damn it!


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:07 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.