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Katy Jane 07-23-2005 05:30 AM

The Spoily Harry Potter Thread
Have at 'er KGM. ;)

Opium 07-23-2005 07:55 AM

I have one thing to say to the last chapter of Book 6: NOOOOOOO! How could you, JK Rowling! I mean, Snape must have a good reason, right? He has to be redeemable, he was just saving Draco from a life of torment...perhaps Snape wasn't himself, or something?

And...NOOO! The White Tomb is some symbolism for rebirth, right? It has to be! It just HAS to be! can't be true, it just can't! There has to be something, something. He couldn't have died like that, he was tricked by the oldest trick in the book. Two of the oldest tricks-at some point, the locket must have been switched, right? After Dumbledore got it...perhaps Hagrid switched it?

I have much more reasoned thoughts on these, but I've already been discussing them at length over msn, so I don't feel like typing them out again. Yes, my name is Opium I am a HP Nerd.

KillerGodMan 07-23-2005 12:37 PM



NOW THEN. I had a theory on Snape's behaviour, maybe..... that part where Snape is argueing with Dumbledore, saying "I won't do it!" maybe Dumbldore was ASKING him to kill him, so Voldemort and the other Death Eaters will trust him completely.

I say this because, he's had tons of chances to bring Harry to Voldemort, without Dumbledore knowing, why didn't he?

Oh well, we'll have to wait until Book 7, hopefully Ginny will go with Harry, Ron and Hermione, because,remember, Vodemort has to be stopped with love. :):D:mrgreen::twisted:8):wink::lol:

Edited because I can't spell theory, and I had to ask someone. 8)

MaverickZer0 07-23-2005 11:58 PM

...I suppose I'm the only one in the world who saw Dumbledore's death coming.

It was obvious to me since they killed off Sirius--since Fred and George left--since Luna's last line in the fifth book.

Harry needs to face Voldemort alone.

He will stuggle and nearly fall, then remember and maybe be spiritually joined by all his friends and all the people he cared about. Dumbledore was there to help him realize the power he had within himself. Sirius was there because he needed to get over loss and trust again. Snape and Malfoy were there because he needed to learn to trust his own judgement and not other people's.

I think we're all taking it for granted that he will win. I know, it's not likely that he won't. He's the hero. But I just have this feeling that J.K.'s going to base it on how things go in the world, whether good or evil wins the day.

I also knew he'd leave Hogwarts the second he didn't think he could be an Auror. Even when he found out he could I still knew. That boy does not need more school. That was why he was Quidditch captain this year--he wouldn't be there the next. That is why he has been showing so much leadership and exposing the full range of his emotions lately.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm morbid. Maybe I'm thinking too much. But I doubt everything will somehow fall into a nice, neat package. I think she's too good a writer for that.

Oh, and R.A.B. is most defintiely Sirius' brother Regulus Black. Cute family naming system, huh?

Ginga 07-25-2005 03:45 AM

Hey, I can come in here now! <3


The one guy who I thought it impossible to kill! The one guy who I assumed would just be too powerful! ;_; Argh argh argh.

Odd random relationships in there, though. And it's even more annoying that Ron/Hermione wasn't clearly pronounced in the midst of all that random 'shipping chaos.

Michiel 07-25-2005 12:31 PM

I think it was always Dumbledore's intention to die. He knew about the unbreakable vow, and he's taught Harry all he needed to know.

So, any thoughts on who R.A.B. is? What about Regulus Black?

MaverickZer0 07-25-2005 09:51 PM

R.A.B. is definitely Regulus Black. J.K. followed her usual pattern of mentioning something important for later a couple of time early in the book, then dropping it later. He's mentioned at least twice with a bit of info.

...Am I the only one who wasn't shocked Dumbledore died?

Michiel 07-25-2005 10:14 PM

You weren't. I didn't really expect it, but I wasn't shocked. It kinda made sense.

And don't be too sure about that pattern. Do you know the past rumours about Mark Evans?

Another nice theory I just read about: Harry himself is a horcrux. It does make sense. Like the diary, Harry recieved a part of Voldemort (like parseltongue.) And Dumbledore himself thought that Harry was going to be Voldemorts last horcrux-murder (so hhmnbn was one short at the time.) But if this theory is true, which murder was it that Voldemort used to make the horcrux? And another gaping hole in this theory: Why has he tried to kill Harry on a couple of occasions?

Nan 07-26-2005 12:46 AM

He killed both of Harry's parents. Therefore, he did commit the necessary murder.

It's not clear how the maternal protection would interact, though.

Katy Jane 07-26-2005 02:27 AM

Thats an intresting theroy. I'M CONVINCED! It makes perfict sense.

I've heard two theroys on the "Dumbledore was asking Snape to kill him." theory... One of which was that Dumbledore wanted to be taken out of his misery, the other which is the unbrakeable curse... I tend to go with the second one. I have to beleve that Snape killed Dumbledore because he had to, not because he's evil. I can't stand the idea that Dumbledore was compleatly wrong about Snape...

MaverickZer0 07-26-2005 03:55 AM

Question: who or what is Mark Evans? i can tell he's related to Harry's mother, but I've never heard of him.

Nan 07-26-2005 08:23 AM

I imagine it's something of a red herring. The Evanses would be Petunia's side of the family. They would warrant more of a mention if it was important, and JKR is fond of misdirection. She usually drops subtler hints than that anyway.

As for Snape, he actively protected Harry from Voldemort and/or his minions on at least three explicit occasions: the Quidditch match at which Quirrell/Voldemort tried to jinx him off his broom to his death; the subsequent match where he reffed; and the confrontation with Sirius Black--granted Sirus wasn't evil, but everyone thought he was.

Other "Light Side" acts include outing himself as a Death Eater to Fudge in #4, heading off Quirrell/Voldemort in #1 (and getting mauled by Fluffy), attempting to teach Harry to protect his mind with Occlumency, etc.

Indeed, his favouring of Malfoy and antipathy toward Harry makes a good cover. Malfoy would likely pass it on to his parents if Snape openly showed any kind of good will toward Harry.

Snape is a bit of a question. His occlumency protects him from both Dumbledore's and Voldemort's legilimency, therefore he can lie to or deceive by omission both. He shares resentment for muggle family or treatment with Voldemort and Harry. He bullies Neville, although his motivations aren't entirely clear--he may believe he's doing good, trying to help Neville grow a backbone, or he may pick on him because Neville won't call him on it. He is callous to pain students suffer in the course of rivalry (think Hermione's teeth), but won't leave them to severe injury (bearing the group to the hospital wing on stretchers in #3, and protecting Harry from the broom jinx in #1). He lacks manners and empathy, and has a distinct inferiority complex.

Few of his aggressive acts against Harry can't be explained by the "cover"--or not--of fascist sympathizer. The outburst in Phoenix when Harry looked into his penseive relates more to his own issues of humiliation and resentment toward Harry's father, his "outing" as a brilliant-but-unstable freak as a youth.

If he's really a double agent for the good guys, it likely stems from the rational realization that Voldemort's society would be a paranoid, violent dictatorship in which he would likely be a second class citizen due to his own parentage, and also at risk of the same secret police and loyalty trials that most all other fascist societies develop.

Going by the example of many in fascist and communist societies, it's likely that as an angry, disaffected youth he fell in with the "screw the establishment" crowd, seeing current "integrated" societies as being weak, biased toward muggles, decadent, etc etc. Eventually, he would come to the realization that under the rule of a sociopath with no qualms about torture and murder was no better a place to live.

Just my theory, anyhow.

Vedra 07-26-2005 08:35 AM

All I want is for Harry to rip Snape apart particle by particle until there's nothing left but a wispy remnant of his immortal soul, which Harry will them curse to a million years writhing in the core of a red giant. That's all.

Opium 07-26-2005 08:47 AM


Originally Posted by Tarn-Vedra
All I want is for Harry to rip Snape apart particle by particle until there's nothing left but a wispy remnant of his immortal soul, which Harry will them curse to a million years writhing in the core of a red giant. That's all.

Nooooooo! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! NO!

Harry Potter owes a lot to Snape, and Harry will not do harm to Snape, because if he does, he should be ripped apart bit by bit. There will be a somehow reasonable reason that Snape did what he did to Dumbledore. Snape's been through enough; he knows what he is doing, and JK Rowling wouldn't let the charater of Snape down like that by making him go back forever to the dark side.

Now, anyone else happy about the Tonks/Lupin relationship? I think it's kinda cool :)

I'm feeling kinda sorry for Trelwany (i cont spel) though I know she's sort of in a self-imposed prison of her own doing. But, she's so sad, really, after even Dumbledore decided to start to push her more to the edge than she already was.

MaverickZer0 07-26-2005 09:19 AM


...I still think that Sirius is going to come back because of what Luna said. On that note...

*pulls out Remus/Sirius and Neville/Luna banners*

I have nothing against Tonks. I actually think she's pretty cool. Lupin just isn't who I'd ship her with.

Opium 07-26-2005 09:31 AM


Originally Posted by MaverickZer0

...I still think that Sirius is going to come back because of what Luna said. On that note...

*pulls out Remus/Sirius and Neville/Luna banners*

I have nothing against Tonks. I actually think she's pretty cool. Lupin just isn't who I'd ship her with.

*also pulls out Neville/Luna banner* but...

As cool as it would be, I highly doubt that JK Rowling will have any slash 'shipping. Because of that, I am all for Tonks/Lupin, because he really is a great guy who needs a wonderful partner in canon. Although in fanon there will always be... :twisted:

Vedra 07-26-2005 09:38 AM

I could care less what his reason's inexcusable. And I'll be even MORE disappointed if Dumbledore comes back. That would make his death meaningless. Hopefully Harry will kill Snape in some incredibly satisfying way (and maybe Umbridge too, just out of spite) and then I can finally put this drawn-out series to bed.

Michiel 07-26-2005 10:24 AM

Snape took the unbreakable vow with Narcissa. Therefore he HAD TO kill Dumbledore, because Draco couldn't. Now, about taking the vow itself, I think it's perfectly plausable that Dumbledore wanted Snape to kill him rather than expose his loyalties to the Order of the Phoenix. Dumbledore has mentioned on a lot of occasions that there are things much worse than death.

Also, I think Snape will use the pensieve in book 7 so everyone can see Dumbledore say these things in his own words.

The fact that he saved Harry a couple of times, though, is not evidence enough. He explained all these things to Narcissa and Bellatrix in chapter 2. To be QUITE honest, from the readers perspective, Snape could still be a double double tripple spy for either side.

Oh, and Mark Evans was just a kid that used to get beaten up by Dudleys gang. A lot of people thought he was related to Lily Evans, and created some theories about his future role in the books. J.K. Rowling, however, squashed all of them on her website, when she said Mark Evans was no one. Just a very minor character who needed a name.

stripysox 07-26-2005 12:03 PM

I still want to know where James got the invisibility cloak. If they are so rare and valuable then it MUST be important!

I'd like to see Sirius come back, and in fact if R.A.B is his brother then that might tie in somehow. Do we actually know what was on the other side of that vale?

Michiel 07-26-2005 12:55 PM

Hm.. I don't see much importance in the cloaks origine, actually. If I remember correctly, Mad Eye Moody has two of them. I suppose Ron just thought they were rare, because they're so cool.

I don't think Sirius will come back, but I still think R.A.B. might be Regulus. Apparently the communication mirror Sirius gave Harry is of major importance, because J.K.R. refuses to answer any questions about it.

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