Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith
 

Okay, so more than half the world has seen the midnight showings already. If *you've* had a midnight showing, raise your hands!

::raises::

In just 3 hours, i'll be going with my friend, who's currently READING ME THE SCRIPT *kathwap* I'm excited. And wondered if anyone else was going to the experiance dressed up with mock light saber battles. My Aussie friend said that two guys jumped up before it started and performed a mock battle.

Okay, so i'm excited, and i'm bored counting down the minutes before we leave. :P More when I wake up tomorow. :D

Saw the premier here. Counted three Jedi and on Darth Vader, which is a very impressive turnout for this city (I think it's the first time I've seen people go to the cinema in costume, period).

The dialogue blows.

But the rest kicks ass.

That's it, basically. Watch it.

Gatac

We had a 4 foot tall Darth, an Obi-wan, and Anakin. That I saw, anyway. Few lightsabers, and lots of Star Wars t-shirts and stuff. Despite the theater forgetting to turn the lights off during the opening scrawl, and the sound going out for 30 seconds during the Battle of Coursecant. I thought it was a lot of fun going.

Overall opinion, the begining was choppy. Scenes were too short and didn't let me get emotionaly involved in them. Yoda animation was completly awesome. R2D2, Palpatine, Obi-wan, Yoda all made me laugh. Really the first time some of those characters got to have humor.

I got shivers down my spine in some of the tense spots. And I don't know wether it was because the theater was so hot, or the movie just so intense, but I walked out of there all flushed.

Overall I liked this one. Better than the other two at first glance. But the scenes were so complex in a short amount of time that I'm sure I missed stuff. I can watch the other movies and still see things i've missed before too. So, I'll have to go again soon. :)

Tiffany and I left the theater speechless, but we both knew what the other was thinking. I belive the movie was great, but it did have its weak moments.

The opening section was ludicrous, but overall it was a suprisingly good film. I enjoyed it.

***POSSIBLE SPOILERS IF YOU"VE NEVER WATCHED THE ORIGINAL SERIES AND DON"T KNOW HOW IT ALL BEGAN****
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Sooo good! Almost as great as the originals! I need to see again!

Thought it was too bad Padme had the whole "I'm pregnant and trusting" thing going on rather than being more kick-butt, although she does do some couragous thing anyways.

I bit my nicely-polished nails during the last half hour so badly I need to re-do some of them. Sooo good!

Since when did Ewan McGregor resemble Kenneth Branaugh?

Chewbacca!

Yoda! I miss puppet Yoda, but CGI Yoda is pretty cool, too!

Anyone else think Anakin is super-cute? :wink:

That's all I can say in any real anything right now.

GO AND SEE IT!

I haven't seen this yet, so If I see any even vaguely spoilerish references to the film in any other thread than this and possible the news thread for the fiver, I WILL HUNT YOU DOWN AND KILL YOU. PAINFULLY.

Okay? :D

I'm afraid I'll have to be the voice of opposition.

The acting was, for the most part, bad. Everytime Padme started "crying" my friend Maxx and I started laughing. The ending was drawn out, and someone in the theatre actually said "Thank God!" when the credits started rolling. And could any more hands be cut off?

All in all, 7/10. Good story badly acted and drawn out. Would be 6/10, but +1 for total lack of Jar-Jar.

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with you, Hotaru. I didn't think the movie was all that great. I mean, it could've been great. Good overall story. Just the dialog, the acting, the fact that over 50% of the movie was battles (and many of them pointless battles), made everything seem inconsequential. My wife fell asleep during the movie. Heck, I was tempted to do the same.

So, what, that puts my SW movie rankings at 5, 4, 6, 1, 3, 2, I think. Maybe swap 3 and 2, but I'm not keen on rewatching 2 to try to figure out how it stacks up to 3.

Oh, come on, this movie was much better than the other two prequels. Then again...nothing beats the original 3 Star Wars movies. Princess Leia, Luke Skywalker, Ewoks, puppet Yoda, and Hans Solo RULE!

Okay, yes, so Sith has its weak moments, but overall, it's still the 4th Star Wars in my books...I guess I'de have to rate 'em 4,6,5, 3, 1, 2 (What? you ask, 6 ahead of 5? Well, I loved the Ewok show and the flying through the forest when I was little, okay?)

Actually, my dad loved the first prequel, with JarJar, kidlet Anakin and Liam Neeson. While I agree with the Liam Neeson part, as he is a great actor, I think my dad needs to change his job...he said George Lucas was brilliant having JarJar, as he represents the average 14-year old boy!

Am thinking of seeing if I can force my dad into teaching 5th graders rather than high school, because he's obviously been around to many teens in the past few decades...

You got to remember the prequels were written a long time ago, and they have to tie into the original trilogy. But yes, the dialog could have been better.

Well, overall I thought it was the best of the prequels, but nothing amazing.

I think they could have done the way Anakin switched to the Dark Side better. The way they did it here seemed kind of unbelieveable. (Then again, it could have just been the bad acting)

I think one thing (besides better acting, plot, dialog, etc.) that these prequels needed was Humor. They just weren't funny at all.

I'd probably give my rankings as: 5, 4, 6, 3, 2, 1

Aww, I didn't even get to maim anyone.

Anyway, I thought it was... good. Not outstandingly brilliant, but good all the same. I was slightly disappointed about the ending - I'd heard in several places that it was going to lead right up to the beginning of Episode IV, but evidently somewhere along the line that was dropped. Ah well.

Bah. And bah. And BAH.

Terrible acting. Terrible dialogue. Poor plotting and writing. Impressive CGI effects, but you know what? I don't care.
It had its good points. A few things were competently done. Most, though, were done with incompetence so blatant, I was wincing the entire film.

RotS was better than the other two prequels; that's not exactly saying much. I also found it to be an exceptionally bad movie - not only in comparison to the original trilogy, but in its own right. And I admit to a certain sense of frustration seeing a lot of people adoring this particular movie, since I somehow feel like they're being taken in by hype and flashy special effects. I'm hopefully wrong on this point, as people who's taste and intelligence I admire have said how much they liked this movie. But still: BAH.

I've critiqued RotS more thoroughly on other sites, so I think I'll just link to those instead of rewriting it all.
Ornery Forum
My LJ

Ouch. Pre-warning - I just realized I should apoligize to Zeke for stealing his kitten joke for a diatribe he probably isn't going to like very much.

:oops: Sorry, Zeke. :oops:

Actually, ROTS made me realize a few things. I don't care that the dialogue is terrible. (Well, actually, I do, but it doesn't sink the film for me.) I have previously decried Hayden's merits as actor. But you know what? I don't particularly care anymore. I've accepted that. I also went in knowing that there will be ludicrousness. So? It's a sci-fi fairytale. Of course the dark hero turns around. Why beat around the bushes? Amidala dying from grief wasn't the best idea, sure, but what else could they have done? Emotions have always played a big part in SW. Within the context of that story, I can understand that her sadness ultimately killed her.

Yet, there's so many good things I hardly hear anyone mention. The music kicks ass. There's tons of other little things - the "Longing stare into the horizon" thing between Amidala and Anakin, the music, the sheer terror in Anakin's expression as the Vader mask lowers over his face...you know, despite its faults, I'm just not cynical enough to decry this movie. One might even be tempted to go the Kevin Smith route and say "It's not for the critics."

Gatac

Sorry, Gatac, but that just doesn't work for me. Ceasing to care about a movie's faults does not make it a good movie - it makes you an uncritical and undiscerning viewer. Which is fine, when it comes to watching a movie just for fun - but not for discussing its merits.
(No offense meant. That was a general "you", not a specific "you.")

Good music is a good thing - but the music should be serving the film. The CGI should be serving the film. However great the soundtrack is, however great spin-off computer games and novels and action figures may be - the film, as a film, is poor.
As for other little things - there are some good moments. But few. Very few. Without the little moments, the movie would have been back on the same level as the previous two - well, maybe not quite that bad, but somewhere close. But even the good little moments aren't exceptionally good. Wistful gazes between lovers and terrified expressions are hardly new, and the ones in RotS may be pulled off well ("may" is key), but are far from outstanding. So: the occasional good moment is something RotS didn't do badly. But they didn't do it particularly well either, and certainly not well enough to cancel out the terrible acting and script.

A particular reviewer rated RotS as follows: 9/10 with your brain off, 2/10 with your brain on. I'm quite inclined to agree. Perhaps the difference between me and all the enthusiastic fans of the film is that I see little value in a movie enjoyable only in brain-off mode.

TOTAL agreement - but I have to add, that I felt it was too unevenly paced. It takes hours over the climatic duel, and yet Anakin's conversion to the Dark Side seems to go

Anakin: I'm all angsty now! Boo-hoo!
Palpatine: Turn to the Dark Side, join me!
Anakin: No! Nae! Never!
Palpatine: We have tacos.......
Anakin: Ooh! Tacos!

*shrug*

Could anyone enjoy the original Star Wars with brain firmly switched on? I'm not trying to be deliberately dense here, but where does this standard to which you hold the movie come from? Using the same yardstick, you could pretty much trash the entire franchise.

Gatac

I enjoyed Ep III, not least because the romantic scenes worked very well as comedy. They were hilarious!

The big flaw I couldn't forgive is just what you mentioned:

Palpatine: Become evil now.
Anakin: No.
Palpatine: But--
Anakin: Okay.

But whatever. I thought it was a lot of fun. Not Citizen Kane, and certainly not Ep V, but fun. Why grouse? Enjoy, as drama or as camp, however it strikes you.[/i]

Gatac - I confess that I'm currently quite afraid to rewatch the original trilogy. Because I've watched each one once, years ago. And yes, they are campy movies, and are not exactly full of profound intellectual insights.

But, until I do rewatch them, I can safely make the following statements:

* The characters were infinitely better-done. I can vouch for neither dialogue nor acting - though I'm fairly certain neither were as abysmal as in RotS - but they were better conceived, more interesting, and more sympathetic. Nobody was whiny, pouty, or otherwise exaspertingly adolescant. Luke, Leia and Han Solo played off each other, interacted with each other. They were active, dynamic, interesting (in fact, the parts of the prequels I did enjoy were those of Anakin and Obi-Wan bantering during missions). The Bad Guys were present as more than lightsaber-fodder. C3PO and R2D2 were actual characters. And so on, and so forth.
* The movies had actual suspense. The prequels had almost no characters whose fate we don't already know from the original trilogy... and in RotS, every single plot element was painfully evident from the first ten minutes.
* The original trilogy had many memorable scenes and lines. "Use the Force" and "I am your father, Luke!" are now staples of popular culture, because the movies were well-done enough to make these lines memorable. (If RotS turns out to be at that level of memorability, and I start hearing "Only the Sith speak in absolutes, Anakin!" left and right, I am going to slit my wrists.)
* While SFX definitely contributed to the original trilogy's original success, it does not account for the vast number of younger fans who first watched it long after its original SFX ceased to be revolutionary. Hence, it's safe to say these movies have significant quality other than their SFX. Whereas the prequels seem more concerned with CGI than plot or acting, with certain scenes looking as if they were written with a spin-off computer game in mind.

What it boils down to is this: I feel the original trilogy had many very good things about, very few bad, and almost no very-bad. And the prequels, RotS included, had many very bad things about them, fairly few good, and almost no very-good.

Scooter- because occasionally, and particularly in the presence of extreme amounts of boring programming homework, I enjoy a good grouse. And because I'm disturbed by the widespread acceptence and enjoyment of films devoid of quality.

Hm. Let's see about that.

Luke annoyed me. Always has. Throughout the entire damn trilogy. Leia barely manages to rise above her mother as far as I'm concerned. (With the added penalty that Natalie Portman is much easier on the eyes, in my humble opinion.) I'll give you Han Solo, but Harrison Ford also happens to be one of my favourite actors. As for the baddies: Moff Tarkin is your basic "bad guy" cliche, as is the Emperor. The only one who had any menace in him was Darth Vader. The rest of 'em? Fuggetaboutit. (And don't start with Boba Fett, I to this day don't understand how the hell anyone can consider this guy to be a good villain.) C3PO was always a running joke, just like R2D2 has always been a rolling plot device. (Oh, and original Yoda versus the livelier, kickass prequel version? No competition.)

I suppose I can give you suspense, but honestly, I think that's more because of the fact that all three prequels were put under the microscope and dissected for months before they ever hit the screen. Nothing beyond the broadest plot points of the prequels is actually spoiled in the original trilogy.

More memorable scenes because it was new back then. The dialogue may have lost some innocence, but I don't think it got much worse. Lucas can't write dialogue, period.

I submit that many younger fans have seen the Special Edition, which has had some of the worse original SFX redone.



I'm not saying that I don't like the older movies, or that I think the prequels are better. But I don't think there's the big drop in quality everybody claims. The gungans were annoying? Good god, does anyone remember the ewoks? They got a freaking cartoon and two made-for-TV movies!

...maybe I really don't get it.

Gatac

The original trilogy, while styled as '40s action pulp matinee, was based on the Hero's Journey, which is about as classic a mythological story-structure as you can get. The prequel trilogy meandered.

Lucas himself said (either in Newsweek or EW, I've forgotten), that when he came up with the story of Anakin becoming Vader, 60% of it needed to be in EpIII. Therefore, he explained, he had to take the other forty percent of the story and spread it out over two movies. "That gave me room to noodle around," was I believe almost his exact quote.

This is the reason the original three can be silly but are ultimately a good story, while the prequel three rarely even get up to the level of guilty pleasure. There's less there there.

I agree about Portman vs. Fisher in looks, but I prefer Leia to Padmé. Leia was a princess who could shoot a blaster, conduct negotiations, banter with a mercenary, and strangle Jabba. Padmé started a queen, demoted herself to senator, and ended as a helpless, heartbroken fashion victim.

@evay, let's not forget that it borrowed a lot of ideas lock, stock (such as the entrance credits, episode numbers, cloud city etc) from the Flash Gordon films of the '30s. So the 30s/40s feel is........difficult to avoid......Although I'm not sure if I prefer Ming the Merciless to Palpatine or not....

On the subject of Palpatine, is it just me, or were his lines worse in this film? "The FULL POWER of the Dark Side!" - and it's been on charge for the last four-hundred years or something?

Gatac -

* I'd suggest that your disdain of Luke and Leia is not exactly the norm. Certainly I've never heard general opinion of the two to be anywhere near as terrible as Anakin and Padme. Secondly, L&L weren't written with their core attributes being negative and annoying ones - namely "sulky" and "dishrag."

* Vader was a good enough villian to carry the film. Cliche's abounded indeed, but were done with a minimum amount of competence, and all in all added to the movie. And Jabba is memorable. ;)

* C3PO and R2D2 were certainly comic relief and plot devices - but fairly well implemented ones. They were characters, with presence, and weren't hauled in for a few minutes a movie ("Look, look! It's ANOTHER character from the original films! Because we can't think up any new ones! Except for Jar-Jar!")

* The "new" Yoda is "kick-ass" - which is nice, and cool, but not very interesting beyond "look, another muppet battle scene." And the only reason it works well is because of the stark contrast to the wise-mentor character established in the originals.

I heard nothing about the prequels prior to watching them. Nothing. Going into RotS, I know from the original trilogy and the previous prequels as follows:
A. Anakin will be turned to the Dark Side.
B. He will fight Obi-Wan, and be left scarred, thus turning him into Darth Vader.
C. The Republic will be turned into the Empire.
D. All the Jedi will be killed.
E. Palpatine is the Sith Lord, and behind pretty much everything bad.
F. Padme will give birth to Luke and Leia, and die.

Within the first ten-fifteen minutes of the movie, we know that the only character depth established in Anakin is:
G. Anakin has premonitions of Padme's death, and wants to stop it.

Drawing the lines here is pretty simple. E will take advantage of G to achieve A. If absolutely nothing happens unexpectedly, C and D will follow. A leads to B, F happens. End of movie.
So what suspense? How Anakin will be turned to the Dark Side? We know who's trying for it and we can see how it's going to happen. Can Anakin save his wife? We know he can't. Can the Jedi bring an end to the war? Nope. Who will live and who will die? We know that already. How will the war end, and how will the Jedi die? Well, this is tricky, but one might venture to guess that they'll be killed in CGI battle scenes. Or in CGI battle scenes with Anakin. Who's the evil mastermind behind all this? The only suspense even hinted at, but no, gave that away earlier to be nice and ominous.

"It was new back then" carries a lot of weight. If RotS had something that was new in it back now, I'd like it a lot more. As for the original dialogue - you may be correct on this point, as I don't remember. I hope to g-d that you're not. If I rewatch the originals and the dialog's as bad as RotS, I'm going to disrespect myself of five years back to no end, as well as fandom at large.

Firstly, teens loved Star Wars in the years between 1977 and 1997. And IIRC, the 1997 effects were nowhere near as revolutionary for their time as the originals were - or, I believe, as the prequels are. And secondly, the SFX weren't the only claim-to-fame of the entire movie.

I'm not arguing for the cartoon and the TV movies. I'm arguing for the original trilogy, and completely ignoring any spinoffs. Return of the Jedi was a solid film, in which the Ewoks might not have been the most brilliant idea in the world, but certainly were nowhere near as irritating and idiotic as JarJar.

First off, when I was a play/preschooler, I LOVED THE EWOKS! EWOKS RULED! :D Don't bash the ewoks! Now that I have off my chest...

Too true. Padme had all the ability to become kick-ass and even die herocially fighting her now-evil husband, while giving life to her children. Instead, she was like, "Well, he's hot, how evil can he be?" and got strangled. In a very unconvincing, ugly "maternity" outfit. (and there are plently of good ones these days...she could have looked pregnant AND be fashionably dressed)

In my opinion, I liked the Saber Duels.

That was it.

I rank the movies as; 5, 6, 4, 1, 3, 2. I thought 6 was the best before, but the new version brought it down, and I wsa so horrified, I fogot what happened at the end of the original. So 5 is now the best,

3 was awful, but not as bad as 2.

I'd make arguements, but you guys have already done that.

I end up with 5,4,3,6,2,1 just in case anyone's counting.

Gatac

I agree with that, except it would be 5,4,3,6. As far as I'm concerned any movie in which Jar Jar talks is voted off the island.

I'm with Gatac on the listing. See, i'm not crticising the special effects or the poor language. I'm all about the symbolism. And star wars is chocked full of it. George Lucas is the master of symbolism. And every time I watch one of his movies I find more. From shadows, to the way the camera is positioned, it all means something. That is what makes this is a great movie for me. It ties in all the other symbolism from the other movies. Explains fully what happens, and makes the other movies that much better.

Now that's a more interesting argument, Celeste. I'd be interested in seeing specific examples of this. I recall some highly-symbolic moments standing out nicely, but few. It's quite possible I missed a lot of them. I'd be happy to hear any specific examples you can give - though I guess it's difficult to show me how the camera's positioned via forum. :\

I agree there is symbolism in the movie, it's just that it doesn't (in my mind) make the movie better most of the time. I do have to say I liked the symbolism of Padme dying during childbirth at the same time as Annakin dying during Vader-birth. Or is that parallelism? Whatever.