BattleStar-eyed wonder
I just sat down today and watched a ton of Battlestar Galatica (The new one). It's pretty good, I must say. But the best part is the effects. The ship fight scenes are utterly amazing. I mean I love DS9's Sacrifice of Angels as much as the next person (a little too much, some might say) but Star Trek starship battles are very different. More...neat? BSG is closer to StarWars, although I think even Star Wars is some what 'neatish'. BSG battles looked, quite real! There was once bit with two Battlestars taking on a couple of BaseStars, and with the missiles and fighters moving round, it was very 'Navy Aircraft battle' like.
Very good! The only thing - downside - is how depressing the show is. All the death and killing! And how everything seems so very hopeless! Had to watch a few Voyagers to cheer myself up! |
Oh, you think nuBSG is depressing? Just try watching the seventies Gerry Anderson show UFO. Now that's depressing.
I'm glad you like it though. It really is a great show, and perhaps one of the better reimaginings that have ever been done. In fact, Captain Scarlet is the only other one I can really think of, which coincidentally was also a Gerry Anderson show. |
As you can tell from my sig, I have seen the coming of the Light of the Pixels of Kobol, and have purchased all the episodes from iTunes. That, and that Ryan Connors Leslie needs more lines, but I digress. The ship designs are very good, and the battles are, as Valium says, very good. It does get depressing, though...but I have this site to cheer me up!
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I have a love/hate relationship with BSG: I hate why people love it. You might think I got all this off my chest during the April Fool's event, but nope, not even close. I could fill page after page with angry invective about the show, the mentality it feeds upon, and what that mentality does to people. Sometimes people I care about.
You guys, however, have not yet been eaten by said mentality -- so by all means enjoy the show. |
There are, as I see it in my twisted worldview, two ways to enjoy any scifi show:
1. Watch it, enjoy it, be inspired by it, never mention it. 2. Watch it, becoming fanatic, kill all braincells. 3. Watch it occasionally because you're too busy painting a model based off of it, make ships based off of it, join online communities to parody it. The first is the bulk of scifi fans. The second is fairly unhealthy. Fortunately, I chose the third for almost all of scifi. As I type this, I am looking for the model of my first BSG ship, a support ship for BattleStars that carries 10 Vipers, 2 Raptors, and lotsa guns. It's made to act as a destroyer, frigate, or crusier to the BattleStar's carrier/battleship. I made it out of 2 Lego Bionicle feet. Yes, I am that nerdy, and clumsy enough to lose it. I am cool. B) |
I think the point is that its depressing. Science fiction tends to work best with a depressing view of the future...Otherwise you get what I like to call the TOS-effect - everyone smiles and They All Live Happily Ever After at the end of the episode and its back to the status quo...
On the other hand, it's not quite got the dull depressingness of say, Blake's 7. I mean, not many programmes have managed to see like Marvin wrote them and then kill off almost the entire cast in the final episode...Its like King Lear, only not quite so well written... UFO is also quite depressing. And the new Captain Scarlet really isn't as good as the original... |
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-A Bird of Prey -WarBird -Defient - 6 Other Federation Ships -Deep Space 9 -Kazon Raider -Maquis Fighter - 3 Star Destroyers -Deathstar -Blockade Runner -Troop Carrier -AT-AT -AT-ST - 2 K-9's - 3 Daleks Well now, that would just be crazy, wouldn't it? |
Perhaps we ought to have a thread for posting pictures of models?
I've been trying to model a Dalek in gmax...so far I have the dome and eye-stalk, and that's about it... |
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I was really into Trek models in high school. You should see my Voyager. For some reason I never got around to building my DS9 model... it's probably still around, so one of these days I'll do it.
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<SpaceRain> That's only 2 types of people, kow. <SpaceRain> STUPID (Courtesy of bash.) |
I love that line. I really love the people who react how SpaceRain did.
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:D |
Zeke, do you find it upsetting that people enjoy a "dark" scifi show, or are you cranked about people who praise it blindly and won't admit to any faults? I enjoy the show, but it's no Trek, and neither is it the Second Coming. RDMoore and Co screw up just as much as anyone else. I'm curious what your objections are.
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Oh, I have no problem at all with dark shows. Some of my favourite Trek episodes are bleak ones like "In the Pale Moonlight" and "Mortal Coil," and I'm enjoying the hell out of the new Doctor Who series. Gene Roddenberry's vision is what separates Trek from most sf, but that doesn't automatically make it better than less optimistic concepts.
What bothers me about BSG is that it seems almost grown out of the basher mentality. "Let's not be Trek" is the closest thing it has to a guiding philosophy. Bashers loved B5 and Farscape too, but those shows didn't love them back the way BSG does. Consequently, the show can get away with things Trek couldn't. Picture for a moment a Trek series as glutted with sex as BSG is. Can there be any doubt that it would be reviled as pandering to the lowest common denominator? But BSG gets to be "Sci-Fi Sexuality Dealt With." I guess all it takes to deal with sexuality is show everybody screwing and never look at the consequences; it's not like sex means anything, after all. And what really gets to me is that everyone is buying it. Not just the bashers, everyone. BSG is all over the net, nigh-inescapable. And it gets slack no other sf show gets. The complaints bashers had about VOY and ENT pale before the ones they should have about BSG but don't. Moore is completely flying by the seat of his pants. The Cylons can do whatever's necessary for the plot because they're mysterious. Maybe "they have a plan," but no one has any idea what it is. And why should they? Their fans don't care. Did you know that Kira used to be every bit the Trek defender I am? We felt just the same way about the basher mentality... and then, little by little, I watched it eat her. In the end she'd become a dyed-in-the-wool TWOP-type fan, agreeing with the mob, saying stuff like "squee," and ending sentences? Like this. By the time BSG came out, it fit her like a glove. So yeah, I have something of a personal investment here -- maybe too much. But I will do anything I can to fight the basher mentality. And I'll watch BSG, sometimes enjoy it, but I'll never forget what it stands for. |
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Chief and Boomer: in the context of a loving relationship. She was outed as a Cylon agent. She died. Helo and Sharon: sort of in the context of a loving relationship. She's pregnant. Helo takes responsibility. Kid is born and must be coped with. Kara and Lee, sort of: Aborted drunken tryst between friends. Kara and her underwear model: eventually in the context of a relationship, as they get married. Lee and Dee: eventually in the context of a loving relationship. Chief and Cally: married, or at least partnered, and she's pregnant. The Tighs: married. Very twisted relationship. Ellen sleeps around, and is one of the show's secondary villains. Dee and Billy: dating. Baltar: Complete and utter tramp, who will sleep with humans, Cylons, battered women, and chip-generated fantasies. Also the show's villain, a total scumbag and vile coward. Six/Gina: Manipulating Cylons. Show's villains. Did I miss anyone? As I'm seeing it, all the positive sex is more or less in healthy relationships between adults, and all the people who are running around screwing anyone are -- gasp! -- the bad guys, whom the show reviles. Kara is not celebrated for her drunken grope of Lee. You know what I don't see? The endless goddamn soap opera they made of Trip and T'Pol. There's no will they/won't they, no coy withdrawals, no genital-teasing. The Siren is a Siren, and acts like one. The officers are competent and dress appropriately for their duties. Quote:
I cheerfully acknowledge BSG's faults. Moore screws up his own continuity, and made an ENORMOUS error in having Roslin ban abortion. And it's NOT Trek; it doesn't celebrate the best we could be and hold it up as a goal. (and you cannot accuse me of not supporting Trek in general or ENT specifically, considering all the work I did on my support page over S3 and S4.) But I also recognize good writing when I see it. |
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But Lost? Yes, it has about a zillion great ideas. The monster, random animals that shouldn't be there, The hidden bases, The countdown thingy, The others, The numbers, The chance meetings, The boy, The French women, The illness and everything else. And what happens..? Zero. No point is ever explained. No-one ever seems to react how any normal person would to these events. No plots are uncovered. I watch an episode and something big happens at the end of it, and you think 'Wow! Now that will be explained next episode! They wouldn't just forget about that, would they!?' But they do. It would be like Buffy finding Dark Willow killing Warren. And then the next episode being about something totally different. I DON'T CARE ABOUT SUN'S CABBAGE PATCH! I just wanna know about the numbers! I've watched the first series. And I've just finished watching the second. I was so bored. The thing that keeps me going on Buffy, Angel, 24 (And Series 3 Of Enterprise) was the plot. Finding small bits of info thoughout, building up the picture, understanding more and more as you go along. I know some stuff needs to be kept hidden till the end, but with Lost it feels like it's everything! The problem with Lost is it's based around 'THE SECRET-tm'. That one big idea. No-one knows what it is -either they've all been taken by aliens, or there're in purgatory- whatever. The thing is, the writers can't tell us what it is. Cos then the mystery will be gone, So I'm guessing I'll have to wait till the very end to find out. There was a big cliff-hanger at the end of series two. One of them 'This will change everything bits'. But knowing this show, everyone will have forgot about it by next series. |
evay, I'm ready to admit when I've been nailed, and you have nailed me. I didn't think that "consequences" comment through at all. I still think Jammer's wrong that BSG has any sort of special maturity where sex is concerned, but the charge I made is unfair, and I'll remember that.
I doubt we'll ever see eye to eye about T/T, though. Will-they-won't-they is how the majority of TV romances work (look at Apollo and Starbuck). I think S4's arc would have been the last of that -- if the show had been able to continue, we'd have seen T/T settle into something like Tom and B'Elanna, but more central because of the characters' importance. I don't like "Harbinger" any more than you do; I guess the reason it doesn't bother me as much is that I was expecting T/T practically from the word go. When I talked to Thinkey after "Broken Bow," she was dead convinced that those two would be the show's big couple, and so I kept an eye out for it and ended up liking the idea. Finally, the fact that I don't think BSG is more mature than Trek about sex doesn't mean I think Trek is mature about it. That idea would always have been dubious, but it was eradicated for good in the decon chamber. (Hmm, guess decon did do something.) |
I appreciate your fair-mindedness -- can't ask for more than that. :) I agree with you that Jammer's wrong, and we can agree to disagree about T/T.
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Um, Zeke, the new Doctor Who is about as depressing as walking in a field of pansies in the bright sunshine with Eddie, the central computer of the Heart of Gold [provided you added legs for him/it]. RNT even designed it specifically to be 'upbeat' and have a 'positive' air. Just thought I'd say that first of all ;)
Secondly: Most Star Trek is fairly formulaic and dull, IMO. DS9 being the exception in that it broke the mould rather by admitting - SHOCK! HORROR! That the galaxy was not starkly divided between 'Goodies' and 'Baddies', and that CONTROVERSY! HERESY! - the Federation was not whiter than white (they'd been buying black-market Daz - always buy the retail version, folks...). Seriously. Single episode adventure, the Glorious Federation Triumphs, move on. Occasonal two-parters, but They All Live Happily Ever After at the end of the episode. All right, it's not quite so bad in VOY, but it still happens. In DS9 characters do develop, at least...The most exciting main-character event to happen in TNG was that Tasha Yar died, right at the beginning. Ooo. Anyhow. One of the great reasons for liking BSG for me is that it's learnt all the good lessons from B5 - or at least pretends pretty well - without some of the pre-DS9 "whiter-than-white Earth" thing (and better dialogue - is there a single first-season episode where Sinclair doesn't mention something like "this could destabilise the very foundation of this station - peace.", owtte?) Oh, and am I the only one who finds Baltar's way of speechifying an amusing parody of Chairman Blair? |
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I have been a little annoyed with the overly convenient endings of some episodes. "The Doctor Dances" was one thing because the Doctor exulted in the fact that "everyone lives" for once, but since then we've had "New Earth" and "The Idiot's Lantern" with similar too-easy endings. The Tenth Doctor's only really costly victory (that I've seen so far) was in "The Age of Steel," though you must admit that one was pretty grim. |
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As Star Trek grew, the writers became more interested in the universe they were creating and hence started to tell more stories about the universe and about the characters. These are still good stories, and I have enjoyed them, but I don't watch them in the same way as I watch the old Trek. About BSG: I have tried to watch the show. I watched a few random episodes in the middle of the first season, and recently I Netflixed the miniseries, but honestly, it's not doing much for me. I could keep watching it, but I'm not seriously inclined to. |
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I think I tend to follow Derek more - Star Trek wasn't trying to show everything as perfect and people as flawless beings - they were more metaphors. To explore different parts of Humanity. (Racial differences, The Cold War, etc). Trying to show that there Humanity could achieve more though co-operation, and putting aside differences. And like he said, that was up till mid Next Gen. Now it's more focused on action type stories (I still like!), which I guess is in part due to the need to compete with other sci-fi shows. I suppose back in the original days and at the start of Next Gen there wasn't much competition, so they could do more slower 'moral' stories.
To be honest thought, I caught a BSG on TV today (Remake). It was the one about a Cylon suicide bombing, and then a big old trial to find out who was to blame. And as I watched it, I realized, it was very like 'The Drumhead', an old Next Gen episode. Yes, more glitz and glamour - and certainly more kissing- but they were so alike even down to the 'Captain gets Tried at the end and proclaims it a witch-hunt'. I suppose even though Star Trek never really had the sex, drugs and rock&roll in it, so long as the story had meaning, it didn't really matter. As for Doctor Who I think this series has quite a bit of depth and sadness in it. As a companion, the Doctor seemed very close to Rose. A fair few other companions seemed rather 'throwaway'. But the way this was played, it always felt to me that there was always a worry in the Doctors head about the safety of Rose. I wonder if they’ll be able to add this to the next assistant. Plus there's him being the (So far) last Time lord. He doesn't seem too happy bout that. And while he's never been a fan of the Daleks, he's turned really quite cold towards them, with what’s happened with his race. I don't know, to me the whole thing has a much darker feel. (Again I mean against the older series - compared to some American shows it's practically the Teletubbies) Even the TARDIS is different. Darker, spookier. |
But there isn't any substance - everyone always lives happily ever after at the end of the episode...TPOTW - everyone is ressurected, for example.
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Sometimes I think the journey can be just as important. I suppose the ends can be a little bit 'cop-outs', but it's usually the episodes that are trying to make a point. 'The measure of a man' for example - Oh how I love that episode - nothing really changes by the end. But it was making a point - That machines are our equals.
Freedom to the Washing Machines! Long live the Toasters! I kid. I get the really meaning - respect all people, everyone/thing equal. |
"The Measure of a Man"? Don't recognise the title, I'm afraid...The TNG Data Trial one?
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Yeah, thats the one. Nothing better than a picard speech. God he's good at them. I must have watches that episode 100's of times. The Drumhead is another good Picard Speechy episode.
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Ahh...Picard speeches. I wonder - lock Picard and Sheridan in the same room - who would have the last word?
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If they chew each others' ears off and there's no one else around to hear, did either of them actually say anything?
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Sheridan? Hmph. Some people just don't know when to stay dead.
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Give the guy a break. Sometimes it takes people a couple of tries to get something right. Practice makes perfect.
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I think Baal should definitely give a helping hand with that one.
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So is dying the new black then? I prefer the good old days in literature where people didn't just 'die' and come back again willy-nilly.....wait.. Sherlock Homes.... Ok scratch that. |
I've said this before and I'll say it again:
Duncan Idaho pwns all. |
Since when was Sherlock Holmes literature? It's badly written - it gets worse as time goes on, in fact - and illogical. Take The Speckled Band - Conan Doyle has Holmes solve the case by knowing more than we do, and by a very contrived last cry from the girl. She could've said something a bit more bloody useful...
As for not dying, I think we perhaps don't value life as greatly any more, and just expect magical escapes. The good Doctor might have something else to do with it, of course :) |
Valium, I've officially lost all hope of you and me ever seeing eye to eye on the quality of stuff. There's very little I enjoy more than a Sherlock Holmes story.
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Oh, they are immensely entertaining, that's for sure, but hardly of great literary worth. I personally find Agatha Chirstie to be a far keener observer of human nature than Doyle, though Sherlock Holmes undoubtedly remains one of the better characters ever created.
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But I have to say, it's not really my cup of tea. I'm more a Agatha Christie fan. I say 'more-of', I mean totally! I think she's fantastic! I love her stories, I think they're first class. I really love the idea she has of 'Playing Fair' - by giving the reader the clues they need to solve the crime. To be honest, I think she is one of the best writers in the world ever. And her booksales are not to be taken lightly - 2nd best selling author ever, after Shakespeare (And in my humble opinion - I think he's totally crap! Dull writing and almost no relevence to today's world!) and usually first best selling in a country (i.e. France). Go Go Christie! |
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