[color=#000000:post_uid0]I was just thinking about what Enterprise could use from other Star Trek series, to improve continuity. I just thought of one. The distress beakon from TNG 2x18 Up The Long Ladder. It was in general use from 2123 until 2190. That's the Enterprise time-period. I know it's just a small thing, but it'd be fun. :)

Can anyone think of any others?[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0]I was just thinking about what Enterprise could use from other Star Trek series, to improve continuity. [/quote:post_uid0]

I can think of a few things from other Trek series that it shouldn't have used...

Griping aside, early Trek continuity is a bit screwed up, since contributions have been made to it over a 40-year timespan, and 'real' history is already starting to impinge on fake history. I must have missed the Eugenics Wars and not been paying attention when they launched Voyager 6.

Some Orions would be nice. If the Gorn show up, and then everyone "forgets" about them until Kirk's time, I'm going to suggest that Archer's Enterprise didn't bother to bring along any recording devices at all.[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][b:post_uid0]Archer:[/b:post_uid0] Captains log...
[b:post_uid0]T'Pol:[/b:post_uid0] Captain, you do know we don't have any recording devices with us?
[b:post_uid0]Archer:[/b:post_uid0] We don't? What have I been talking into all year?
[b:post_uid0]T'Pol:[/b:post_uid0] A spoon.
[b:post_uid0]Archer:[/b:post_uid0] Why didn't anyone tell me before?
[b:post_uid0]T'Pol:[/b:post_uid0] We thought it was kind of amusing, actually.[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]You uninformed critics! Don't you know that, in the fourth season, just after Q helps them fend off the Borg-Dominion alliance, they discover that they were actually transported into a parallel universe in "Broken Bow"?[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Damn, I must have missed that one. I already knew they were in a the parallel universe, but I thought it was caused by the Temporal Cold War.[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Well, I've often thought that they could get around the sub-space radio blooper by implying that they're using a Vulcan sub-space net rather than having the equipment on [i:post_uid0]Enterprise[/i:post_uid0] itself.

I think seeing some stuff from Earth's past might be good too. It's only been a hundered-odd years since WWIII, so it would be interesting to see the crew dealing with the consequences of that in some way. So far it's been more or less completely ignored.

EDIT: The inclusion of the [i:post_uid0]Daedalus[/i:post_uid0]-class ships at some point would be a nice idea too.[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]What about the photon torpedos they suddenly have? Hell, what about the modern form of the ship, more than Kirk's Enterprise?[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Or a laser cannon?[/color:post_uid0]

[quote:post_uid0="PointyHairedJedi"][color=#000000:post_uid0]EDIT: The inclusion of the [i:post_uid0]Daedalus[/i:post_uid0]-class ships at some point would be a nice idea too.[/color:post_uid0][/quote:post_uid0]
[color=#000000:post_uid0]Chronology on the [i:post_uid0]Daedalus[/i:post_uid0] class is vague, at best. One of the best I've run across, and one I personally like, states that they were produced in large numbers as battle platforms for the Earth-Romulan War, which means that we [i:post_uid0]could[/i:post_uid0] conceivably see them on ENT at some point.[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Personally I think Enterprise could use a little more originality, not less.[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Originality is fine, as long as it doesn't screw up the time-line.

BTW: I think Enterprise has been pretty original so far.[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]It's original, but it has way too many things it's not supposed to have yet. Earth is not supposed to make first contact with the Ferengi untill TNG, but the Suliban are great, and they're still at war with the Klingons, just like they should, according to TOS. I think anyway, I don't watch TOS.[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0]It's original, but it has way too many things it's not supposed to have yet. [/quote:post_uid0]

Well, they've had a ripoff of Star Trek VI, a ripoff of 11:59, the standard Shuttle Crash Episode (several), the Mysterious Virus Episode, the Transporter Malfunction Episode, the Holodeck Episode (something else they shouldn't have), and probably several more which I'd recognize if I watched the show.

[quote:post_uid0]and they're still at war with the Klingons, just like they should, according to TOS. [quote:post_uid0]

According to TOS, they shouldn't even know the Klingons (and said Klingons should look like Mongols, but that's a whole other thread). My Star Trek Encyclopedia says that first contact with the Klingon Empire was made in 2218, long after the Federation was founded. The Earth-Romulan War should occur at the end of the series.

The Earth-Xindi war doesn't seem to appear in any historical records, oddly enough.[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Yes, it's a shame continuity isn't 'air-tight' with Enterprise, but I still think they've done a great job. There wouldn't be much of a serie without the klingons, the ferengi, a transporter, etc. They've got to have something to use. They can only try to minimize the damage.

And who knows, maybe at the end, in the last season perhaps, somehow the entire temporal cold war will be prevented and a lot of the things that didn't make sense, like the borg, will be prevented as well.[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Exactly. Time travelling can cause a lot of problems, but it can solve (continuity) problems too.
There's just one problem that's never going to be solved. If you try to change history because something went wrong, you can never succeed, because if you do, it wouldn't go wrong, so you wouldn't want to change anything. Then it does go wrong, and you change it, etc. etc... :eyeroll:[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]:D Gotta love a temporal paradox! :D

But to quote Daniëls:

[quote:post_uid0]You're thinking of time travel like Enterprise is some H.G. Wells novel. It's not. It's far more complicated. There's no way for you to understand.[/quote:post_uid0]

By the way, there wouldn't be any good movies or episodes about time travel if they had to avoid temporal paradoxes like this. I mean, Back To The Future [b:post_uid0]rules[/b:post_uid0], but it's full of such mistakes. And do you know the serie Early Edition? Some guy gets tomorrow's newspaper today, so he can prevent disasters, etc. Besides the fact that that newspaper would eventually forget how to print bad news, every disaster that guy prevents could never have been printed, so he could never have prevented it.[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]But the paper says what [i:post_uid0]would[/i:post_uid0] happen if Gary doesn't do anything about it. Or something. That's how I picture it anyway. Because as soon as someone (especially other that Gary) looks at the paper, it changes.

And [i:post_uid0]Back to the Future[/i:post_uid0] isn't as full of temporal paradoxes as [i:post_uid0]Star Trek[/i:post_uid0]. Of course it isn't as good as [i:post_uid0]Star Trek[/i:post_uid0] either.
Would that mean temporal paradoxes are good? :O[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0]But the paper says what would happen if Gary doesn't do anything about it. Or something. That's how I picture it anyway. Because as soon as someone (especially other that Gary) looks at the paper, it changes.[/quote:post_uid0]

It's Tomorrow's newspaper. That means, whatever is going to be printed on tomorrow's paper, that's what's in it. If you change something (like prevent a disaster), that disaster won't be printed tomorrow, and therefor, should never have been in Gary's paper.

[quote:post_uid0]And Back to the Future isn't as full of temporal paradoxes as Star Trek. Of course it isn't as good as Star Trek either.
Would that mean temporal paradoxes are good? :O[/quote:post_uid0]

You got it! :D[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]I actually read a Gregory Benford novel called [i:post_uid0]Timescape[/i:post_uid0] that was all about people changing the past to prevent a global disaster by sending messages back using nutrinos or something. The explanation for getting round the paradox that might have ensued was actually very good and made sense - it was quite Trousers of Time-ish though.[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]I don't know that novel. What was the explanation?

I'll try to guess though. I've thought about this whole paradox thing a lot. :)

If you (lets call him you_1) send a message back to your past self (lets call him you_2), to prevent a disaster, you_1 shouldn't only send that message, but you_1 should also tell you_2 to send the exact same message back in time to you_3, even though you_2 already prevented the disaster. Then you_3 becomes you_2 and you_2 becomes you_1 and it starts all over, without a temporal paradox.

lol, am I making any sense?[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]I don't think they've had [i:post_uid0]enough[/i:post_uid0] "transporter malfunction" episodes. The transporter is still leading-edge technology. It should have a few bugs still in the system, and the crew should have their doubts about using it.[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Ah, transporter psychosis. :)[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]^ Unfortunately, according to "Realm of Fear" transporter psychosis won't be diagnosed for decades after ENTs run ends.

There are a lot of things about ENT I like or would like to see expounded on. I really like the ENT-era Vulcans. I'd like to see more stuff going on with them. I'd like to see more of Earth in general. I'd like to see the TCW expanded on more. I'd like to see more BotF storylines as well. I think ENT has a number of good threads that it needs to pick up on and grow with. I'm a little troubled by this whole "Delphic Expanse" thing because it leaves me with the feeling that everything up to now is just going to be dropped in favor of some wild goose chase. Oh well, I'll give it a chance.[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0]If you (lets call him you_1) send a message back to your past self (lets call him you_2), to prevent a disaster, you_1 shouldn't only send that message, but you_1 should also tell you_2 to send the exact same message back in time to you_3, even though you_2 already prevented the disaster. Then you_3 becomes you_2 and you_2 becomes you_1 and it starts all over, without a temporal paradox.[/quote:post_uid0]
Ah yes. The same thing is on [i:post_uid0]Starfleet Command[/i:post_uid0] when Picard tells himself how to defeat the Borg. :D

Has anybody ever seen 7 days? I have [b:post_uid0]absolutely[/b:post_uid0] no idea how they explain [i:post_uid0]that[/i:post_uid0]... :O[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0]Ah yes. The same thing is on Starfleet Command when Picard tells himself how to defeat the Borg. :D[/quote:post_uid0]

I don't know what you're talking about. Is this an episode?[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0]Has anybody ever seen 7 days? I have absolutely no idea how they explain that... [/quote:post_uid0]

That was kinda strange. I mean, how did he avoid running into himself? And with all the jumping back, wouldn't that mean he'd get older a lot quicker compared to those around him? It just doesn't make any sense.

[quote:post_uid0]I don't know that novel. What was the explanation?
[/quote:post_uid0]

You know the theory that goes 'For every major event the timeline splits so that all the possible outcomes happen [i:post_uid0]somewhere[/i:post_uid0]'? It's what they used for [i:post_uid0]Sliders[/i:post_uid0] anyway. Well, in [i:post_uid0]Timescape[/i:post_uid0], the future scientists send this message back, and essentially force a split in the timeline because the message arriving [i:post_uid0]was[/i:post_uid0] the event. The timeline that the future scientists occupy continues as normal from their point of view, but a new timeline is created in which the ecological disaster doesn't happen because the message tells the past scientists how to prevent it. Basically speaking, they cause a new leg in the Trousers of Time to appear in the past whilst continuing down their own leg.

Does that make any sense?[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0]If you try to change history because something went wrong, you can never succeed, because if you do, it wouldn't go wrong, [/quote:post_uid0]

Tell that to Archer...or Sam Beckett, rather.[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0]I don't know what you're talking about. Is this an episode?[/quote:post_uid0]
No, it's a game.

[quote:post_uid0]That was kinda strange. I mean, how did he avoid running into himself?[/quote:post_uid0]
That, and somehow the others don't know he jumped, but they still have only one shuttle.
He does get older quicker, they explained that once, but he doesn't jump that often, so the difference is not that great.

[quote:post_uid0]Does that make any sense?[/quote:post_uid0]
Not only does it make sense, but I actually thought up that exact theory once. (I haven't read the book.) When I tried to explain it to my brother, however, he either didn't get it, or thought I was delirious. ;)[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Yes, I understand that theory. But it doesn't make any difference for those future scientists, does it? And if they don't even notice the difference, how do they know their message arrived? Or if sending messages back through time works at all, for that matter.[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Well, the future scientists got the past scientists to leave a message in a bank vault if they recieved the messages. But you're right about them not knowing if it worked out eventually.[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Can't avoid paradox if the traveller remains rooted in the timestream. I always favor the systems where the traveller is somehow disconnected from the new timestream - so if you kill you own grandfather, you yourself survive, even though in the new stream, you're never born.

Another neat system is that you can go back, except you can't make any changes to what you already know.

Meaning you can go back in time to when your grandfather was born, find his bassinet, and kill him... ON THE CONDITION that you then kidnap a similar looking baby, and put it in his place, because actually he was your grandfather all along...

A better example would be, you and your friend are walking along a corridor. Your friend, walking ahead, turns the corridor, then suddenly you hear a zap, see a flash of light, and then all is still.

Well, no problem. You go back in time, and teleport your friend to safety just as he turns the corner. The zap gun misses him entirely. Who are you to say that's not what happened the first time around?

Ah, what if you already turned the corner and saw his charred body? Well, even so, there's no reason to discard the possibility that this is only the charred remains of a [i:post_uid0]clone[/i:post_uid0], which your time-travelling self thoughtfully remembered to beam in as he got your friend out. So the only way for your friend to be absolutely, irrevocably dead, is if you scan him with your ReallyReallyDead-O-Tron, and see that it's really him, and he was really killed right now.

Unless, of course, you were to go back in time, pick up your scanner, and cause a minor malfunction...

I love time travel.[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]My brain hurts. Stop that.[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]But what if you don't? What if, say, you kill your grandfather, and don't put another baby in his place. And you make sure no one else does either. What happens then?[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Well, for starters you don't go on to write [i:post_uid0]Red Dwarf[/i:post_uid0].[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0][quote:post_uid0]Meaning you can go back in time to when your grandfather was born, find his bassinet, and kill him... ON THE CONDITION that you then kidnap a similar looking baby, and put it in his place, because actually he was your grandfather all along...[/quote:post_uid0]

Sounds like a predestination paradox to me, which is, I think, impossible. That similar looking baby couldn't possibly have identical DNA, so if that baby was your grandfather all along, you would never have existed if you never travelled back in time to do all this.

[quote:post_uid0]But what if you don't? What if, say, you kill your grandfather, and don't put another baby in his place. And you make sure no one else does either. What happens then?[/quote:post_uid0]

Then, you killed your grandfather, which means you never existed, so you couldn't have traveled back in time to kill your grandfather, so you DO exist, so you do travel back in time to kill him, which completes the temporal paradox, which, according to doc Brown, will destroy the universe. Granted, that's a worst case scenario. The destruction could be limited to only our own solar system. ;)

(Is it just me, or has this thread gone completely off topic? I'm not complaining, I like this kind of discussion.)[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Alright then, answer this: WHEN is the universe destroyed? Or is it that it never existed?
And what if only your own solar system is destroyed? Because, if someone from another solar system goes there, they find nothing right? But what if you already made first contact with another solar system? Then they already know you, which would mean, either you've suddenly disapeared, or history is changed, like with Dawn, or it causes a chain reaction. Like, we made first contact with the Vulcans, and some of us do something that would get our solar system to be destroyed by temporal paradox. Then the Vulcans would be destroyed too, just because they know we existed, which we didn't. The Vulcans know the Andorians, and a lot of other races. Since the Vulcans never existed, the Andorians never existed either, just like all those other races who know any Vulcans. Eventually, the whole universe would be destroyed anyway.[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Well, I haven't read the definitive text on the subject ;), but what you say sounds about right. In Back to the future, however, earth hasn't made any contact with aliens, so the destruction could only be limited to our solar system.

I don't think doc Brown thought of it this way though, because he regularly sais that a certain event would "create a major paradox". "major", that means bigger than the avarage paradox. And how can that be, if our theory is correct? Any temporal paradox on earth would cause this destruction in the same way, right?[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]Brain...go...dribbly.[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]And by the way, I still have trouble understanding how a temporal paradox could destroy anything. It would simply be an endless loop. I don't think, though, that that loop could be limited to any area, because if earth's solar system would be in temporal paradox, what would happen if aliens visit earth [i:post_uid0]after[/i:post_uid0] the time-period that the paradox occured? No one knows what would happen 'after' the paradox, because there is no 'after'. The aliens would be frozen in that time-period too, without the oppertunity to ever visit earth.[/color:post_uid0]

[color=#000000:post_uid0]I guess so, but I don't like doc's theory. It implies that if you [i:post_uid0]could[/i:post_uid0] ever travel through time, you still better not (and that's a major understatement) because if anything goes wrong, all of mankind would never have existed. It's pretty pessimistic.[/color:post_uid0]